Thread: Big storm and no power in SA

Originally Posted by DiscoMick

Isn't it true that the wind generators were set to trip in certain circumstances and they did as intended? Now they're apparently changing the settings.
As for gas, isn't it a fact that gas can be included to operate at a certain baseload level in the system if that is desired? Once operating, it would be easier and quicker to scale up than if it was cold.
Aren't these just facts?


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Protection settings, not rules, now they are altering the setting on the protection, which reduces the level of protection on the wind turbine itself

They can run a gas fired boiler at generation level, no probs, so we turn the wind off and the gas on in bad weather?

Running up larger boilers is extremely expensive, demineralised water is far from cheap, let alone firing gas etc, they are not suitable to flick on for a day, turn back off.....again, they are baseload generators....designed for.....baseload generation would you believe

I love facts,

it is very difficult to guess what baseloads are needed at all times.

a good example of this is a small gas generator in Barcaldine, used for peaks but must be bought/sold prior to starting up.

once the sale has taken place they then bring the gasgen online requiring a fairly large diesel engine to be started to run up the gasgen before it comes online.

this all takes considerable time and cost and sometimes they only just get it online for a short time and then the loads are shed or redistributed and the system is shut down.

it is actually a co generator with a small steam turbine attached to the exhaust of the gas turbine.

because of the above way the system is now used for load sharing , the steam turbine never has enough time to come online so it has become a multimillion dollar inoperable white elephant.....the steam turbine has been robbed of ancilliary parts/pumps/valves etc by other cogen plants around SE Qld and will never run again.

this is the level of intelligence in this country when it comes to balancing power generation.

Originally Posted by ramblingboy42

it is very difficult to guess what baseloads are needed at all times.

a good example of this is a small gas generator in Barcaldine, used for peaks but must be bought/sold prior to starting up.

once the sale has taken place they then bring the gasgen online requiring a fairly large diesel engine to be started to run up the gasgen before it comes online.

this all takes considerable time and cost and sometimes they only just get it online for a short time and then the loads are shed or redistributed and the system is shut down.

it is actually a co generator with a small steam turbine attached to the exhaust of the gas turbine.

because of the above way the system is now used for load sharing , the steam turbine never has enough time to come online so it has become a multimillion dollar inoperable white elephant.....the steam turbine has been robbed of ancilliary parts/pumps/valves etc by other cogen plants around SE Qld and will never run again.

this is the level of intelligence in this country when it comes to balancing power generation.

This is why we have a grid. When all the loads are drawing from the grid, the peaks are a more reasonable level in percentage terms.

Originally Posted by ramblingboy42

it is very difficult to guess what baseloads are needed at all times.

a good example of this is a small gas generator in Barcaldine, used for peaks but must be bought/sold prior to starting up.

once the sale has taken place they then bring the gasgen online requiring a fairly large diesel engine to be started to run up the gasgen before it comes online.

this all takes considerable time and cost and sometimes they only just get it online for a short time and then the loads are shed or redistributed and the system is shut down.

it is actually a co generator with a small steam turbine attached to the exhaust of the gas turbine.

because of the above way the system is now used for load sharing , the steam turbine never has enough time to come online so it has become a multimillion dollar inoperable white elephant.....the steam turbine has been robbed of ancilliary parts/pumps/valves etc by other cogen plants around SE Qld and will never run again.

this is the level of intelligence in this country when it comes to balancing power generation.

That's a Peaker plant by the sounds, not baseload....that's what it is designed to do, now it will be done on spot price as the price per megawatt has to make a good return, some marketing people will say when to turn on and off....that's doing its job, just that instead of old state run, they would see a peak, run a unit for the peak and turn it off....now we have another dynamic, which is profit and loss.

The level of intelligence is shown in SA and the lack of newer, more efficient base load generation, Tasmania with no more of the ultimate in renewable AND baseload power, not building anymore hydro, or vic where the public wants to drop 1600MW from the grid and magically renewable energy will solve the problems

Originally Posted by rovercare

Protection settings, not rules, now they are altering the setting on the protection, which reduces the level of protection on the wind turbine itself

They can run a gas fired boiler at generation level, no probs, so we turn the wind off and the gas on in bad weather?

Running up larger boilers is extremely expensive, demineralised water is far from cheap, let alone firing gas etc, they are not suitable to flick on for a day, turn back off.....again, they are baseload generators....designed for.....baseload generation would you believe

I love facts,

I did say gas baseload.

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Mick,you cannot have a boiler chuffing away at what ever percentage suits you,they are either running at 100% or stopped.These types of arguments are pointless if people use hypothetical's,what if's etc. Pat

Originally Posted by DiscoMick

I did say gas baseload.

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You said scale up, this is not what baseload generators are capable of.....well boilers are not anyhow

Geez you people are picky. I'm sure you know what I mean.
There are several gas generators. If some had been operating they could have continued to operate and provided some baseload separately from the interconnectors. Other gas could then have been brought online ASAP.

As for gas, isn't it a fact that gas can be included to operate at a certain baseload level in the system if that is desired?