Big storm and no power in SA

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Originally Posted by rovercare

Sigh...

Power has been $32-35/a megawatt since I was atyallourn W 15 years....

Unions have pushed the wages up how much?

The Grubbyment has pushed the royalties on coal up how much?

The cost of materials has risen how much?

The list goes on, we are a bunch of retards with no pragmatic point of view, as you seem to wish to prove, who will happily cut our nose of to....

Who are the parliamentarians that were pro closure, now offering "support", what a circus

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SPOT ON.
Yes, it definitely was a commercial decision by the Frenh owners, no doubt about that at all,....the big question is,..BUT WHY.
Vic Govt hit the operators with 300% carbon penalties (after granting them a TEN YEAR license to use brown coal!) ....costing them (the operator) $25 MILLION P.A.
Labour & other COSTS.
In other words, they no longer found it economically viable.
Would the Greens be happy,...ABSOLUTELY.
End result ,...Vics will pay more for power, estimates vary between 5-25%, but we'll just have to wait & see on that one.
Will this affect the Valley?...Of course it will,.....could be an on-flow to Alcoa here too,..again, wait & see.
Pickles.

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Originally Posted by AndyG

Educate me, after stripping out subsidies how is solar and wind power cheaper than coal power. Wind, solar have many attributes, but I don't think cheapness is one of them, especially when you factor in backup power for those nights with no wind.

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Electricity is a competitive market. Once built, wind and solar have much lower operating costs. So they can offer electricity to the market at a low charge.

Sent from my SM-G900I using AULRO mobile app

Sorry, Capex cost over effective life cannot be ignored.

Or if you prefer, the ATO Depreciation Rate for Solar is 5 year, Wind 20 years.

I am sure you take purchase price into consideration when buying your own gear

[ame]http://www.tai.org.au/sites/defualt/files/WP118_7.pdf[/ame]

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Originally Posted by DiscoMick

Electricity is a competitive market. Once built, wind and solar have much lower operating costs. So they can offer electricity to the market at a low charge.

Sent from my SM-G900I using AULRO mobile app

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They are heavily subsidised, with STC's or LGC's.

https://www.rec-registry.gov.au/rec-.../what-is-a-rec

Wind and solar are dearer forms of energy, brown coal is still pretty much the cheapest for, of power available, 1. You can't say "once built" as its like saying once a house is built the rent is cheap.. 2. Wind most certainly is not cheap when it comes to operating costs, it's actually extremely expensive and requires a lot of maintenance

Please inform yourself prior to posting again or atleast begin with, I think...

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Originally Posted by DiscoMick

Electricity is a competitive market. Once built, wind and solar have much lower operating costs. So they can offer electricity to the market at a low charge.

Sent from my SM-G900I using AULRO mobile app

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[ame]http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/aeo/assumptions/pdf/table_8.2.pdf[/ame]

A few current facts, troublesome things, and some numbers that surprised me. Didn't realize sequestration was so expensive !

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Originally Posted by DiscoMick

Electricity is a competitive market. Once built, wind and solar have much lower operating costs. So they can offer electricity to the market at a low charge.

Sent from my SM-G900I using AULRO mobile app

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If that was the case, then with the closure of Hazelwood, the electricity bills should be decreasing.
So, why are they telling us they will be increasing?

[ame]http://www.pc.gov.au/inquiries/completed/carbon-prices/report/carbon-prices.pdf[/ame]

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The levelised cost of electricity (LCOE) is a widely-used measure of the cost of
electricity generation technologies. Estimates of the LCOE are sensitive to
assumptions about factors such as capital costs, the useful life of assets and the
technical efficiency of generation technologies. As such, they should be treated as an
indicative guide to the relative costs of various technologies.
The Electric Power Research Institute (2010) reported estimates of the LCOE of
various sources of electricity in Australia, including:

coal-fired electricity (without carbon capture and storage) ? A$78-91/MWh

combined-cycle gas turbines (without carbon capture and storage) ? A$97/MWh

wind ? A$150-214/MWh

medium-sized (five megawatt) solar PV systems ? A$400-473/MWh.
Smaller domestic PV systems are likely to have higher costs again. The high LCOE for
solar PV is one of the reasons that policies that subsidise solar PV have high implicit
abatement subsidies.
Source
: Electric Power Research Institute (2010).

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Originally Posted by AndyG

Educate me, after stripping out subsidies how is solar and wind power cheaper than coal power. Wind, solar have many attributes, but I don't think cheapness is one of them, especially when you factor in backup power for those nights with no wind.

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Isn't coal subsidised too?
I think I have see figures like $1.8b a year.

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Originally Posted by vnx205

Isn't coal subsidised too?
I think I have see figures like $1.8b a year.

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I have seen no evidence supporting that view. Perhaps you would like to supply some?
In the news reports I have read on Hazlewood, they cited part of the reason for closing was because taxes on coal had risen 300%.

http://reneweconomy.com.au/coal-prod...-a-year-77543/

http://reneweconomy.com.au/australia...-report-43490/

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2014-1...bsidie/5881814

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ener...y_of_Australia

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politi...01-ghe807.html

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Originally Posted by vnx205

Coal production subsidies cost Australians $1.8bn a year : Renew Economy

Australian fossil fuel subsidies put at $5.6bn a year in new report : Renew Economy

Australian coal, oil and gas companies receive $4b in subsidies: report - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ener...y_of_Australia

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politi...01-ghe807.html

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They are all coal for export. They are coal, oil and gas destined for overseas markets.
None of those subsidies were for local electricity production.

Which raises an interesting point, perhaps for another thread, why is it ok for other countries to burn coal in their own country, sourced in Australia, transported by bunker oil burning ships, and yet it's not ok for us to burn it?