Big storm and no power in SA

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Originally Posted by JDNSW

No, the gas shortage is not because it is being sent overseas. It is being sent overseas because, unlike domestic buyers, the overseas customers were prepared to enter into supply contracts that were 'bankable'. The reason for this failure on the part of domestic suppliers was because neither their customers nor the state governments were prepared to pay what this would cost. As you point out, the Qld government provided the certainty of a sellers market by requiring 15% of their power to be gas. And not stopping exploration and development for gas!

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i think you hit the nail on the head

before renewables, when the gas power station ran full time, the supply contract would of been bankable.

Expecting a grid to go 100% renewable without sufficient storage is of course entirely ridiculous. Good thing that engineers are busy working on various storage technologies then.

Tesla battery boss: We can solve SA's power woes in 100 days | afr.com

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Originally Posted by bee utey

Expecting a grid to go 100% renewable without sufficient storage is of course entirely ridiculous. Good thing that engineers are busy working on various storage technologies then.

Tesla battery boss: We can solve SA's power woes in 100 days | afr.com

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Behind a pay wall.

If they can do it, why don't they? It is a competitive privately owned energy market.
My tip is it's probably not economically viable or feasible. The tonnage of batteries required is enormous.

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Originally Posted by JDNSW

No, the gas shortage is not because it is being sent overseas. It is being sent overseas because, unlike domestic buyers, the overseas customers were prepared to enter into supply contracts that were 'bankable'. The reason for this failure on the part of domestic suppliers was because neither their customers nor the state governments were prepared to pay what this would cost. As you point out, the Qld government provided the certainty of a sellers market by requiring 15% of their power to be gas. And not stopping exploration and development for gas!

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Yes that's true. Beattie backed the industry by providing a guaranteed market and the industry has expanded well beyond the 15% for Queensland. Now SA is seeking to generate 75% of its electricity from a new gas plant, so that government contract should be bankable and companies should be able to get finance. I imagine proposals are going forward to the SA Government right now. SA has plenty of gas in the ground and an existing Santos operation, so a deal should be possible. Gas and renewables will meet the baseload demand and significantly lower emissions. No coal is needed.
I have read the gas companies have over-promised to supply overseas buyers and are struggling to meet the demand. They are certainly ramping up production as fast as possible and doing everything to maximize output from their wells.
Queensland is charging ahead while some other states have listened to too many unsubstantiated claims from opponents and the industry is frozen. Gas production can be well managed and avoid the possible problems.

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Originally Posted by Mick_Marsh

Behind a pay wall.

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Enter the title of the article into a google search. That got me there without a subscription.

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Originally Posted by Mick_Marsh

If they can do it, why don't they? It is a competitive privately owned energy market.
My tip is it's probably not economically viable or feasible. The tonnage of batteries required is enormous.

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1. They are already doing it, battery manufacturing capacity continues to rise exponentially year on year.

2. Cost of manufacture drops with volume production, some new battery installs are already able to give financial returns. Peak shaving is very profitable, bulk delivery less so. Loss of business during a blackout is also very expensive and somewhere battery storage can pay for itself quite quickly.

3. Of course you already know that batteries aren't the only technology able to store energy, just that they can be deployed incrementally and at relatively short notice. Unlike bulk heat or pumped hydro storage which takes a few years at least to get going, but will happen when ready.

i think he meant, why has it not been installed into the SA grid.
if it was viable, it would of been done already.

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Originally Posted by Eevo

i think he meant, why has it not been installed into the SA grid.
if it was viable, it would of been done already.

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What part about dropping prices are you finding hard to understand? Grid parity is a well understood concept that is happening in various parts of the world at somewhere around the present time. In SA that depends on how your energy and other business costs are calculated, no two applications will be exactly the same. Solar on its own is way past parity. Solar plus storage is almost there for many customers. Add rising energy prices to dropping battery prices and it will be a no brainer to install storage except for those who are no brainers. [wink11]

Grid parity - Wikipedia

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Originally Posted by bee utey

What part about dropping prices are you finding hard to understand? Grid parity is a well understood concept that is happening in various parts of the world at somewhere around the present time. In SA that depends on how your energy and other business costs are calculated, no two applications will be exactly the same. Solar on its own is way past parity. Solar plus storage is almost there for many customers. Add rising energy prices to dropping battery prices and it will be a no brainer to install storage except for those who are no brainers. [wink11]

Grid parity - Wikipedia

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we're talking about why it isnt installed NOW. dropping prices isn't relevant.
what part of NOW are you not understanding? its nice to talk about the future but we're having power outages NOW.

if solar is "way past parity", why does it only have 30% penetration?

if grid sided storage is viable, why has it not been done? or are we waiting for falling prices? how long do we wait? 5 year, 10 years?

getting back to wind power.

wind power doesnt work. its been the worst thing for consumers. more outages due to wind farms not putting out, higher prices.

Wind power works fine. Wind didn't cause the outages, that was network hardware damage and gas backup not being available. Also wind power comes into the market much cheaper than fossil power. If it wasn't for wind and solar power prices would be even higher.