Thread: DISCIPLINE THESE DAYS

Originally Posted by DiscoMick

Yep, the PI families I know are very strong loving groups. In many cases the thing the PI kids fear most is bringing shame on their family and facing potential ostracism because their behaviour is unacceptable to the others.
Unfortunately, some other kids don't seem to care if they make their families ashamed of them.
I don't see any benefit in physical punishment. The aim is to change their attitudes, not hurt them.
Little kids who go to hit someone should be grabbed on the arm they are swinging, spoken to very firmly about why they can't hit people, made to apologise and then taught the correct way to get attention.
Boundaries of behaviour have to be set. Parents who ignore their kids bad behaviour are actually teaching them that any behaviour is acceptable. That is likely to get the kids into big trouble in the future. Their kids won't thank them later for having indulged them.
Set boundaries, explain why the boundaries apply, and stick rigidly to them. That's the way forwards. Even if the kids rebel, they will still know what is acceptable and unacceptable.

That makes very good sense. Our daughter has not long come back to Brisbane after 2 years teaching at Gayndah, inland from Maryborough. Her first teaching experience, it was a wonderful start to her career for a couple of reasons. One was the children. Respectful, disciplined, good bush kids. Most had worked for an hour before coming to school. Back in Brisbane, the children at the school she is at are good kids, but some have issues that the bush kids did not. And the City parents are harder to deal with in some ways.
At the country school, there were fewer teachers, so each one had to take on extra responsibilities. She learned a lot. At the City school, she has to learn how to deal with children with " issues ". And their parents. The experience at Gayndah has helped a great deal, one thing she says is that boundaries must be set , and to love teaching, you have to teach with love.

Originally Posted by bob10

I guess I meant Corporal in this context, but summary without due process is not desirable, as well, I think.

We may be envisaging different misbehaviour, different ages or different forms of discipline. For the sort of things I had in mind, the "due process" would mostly be done beforehand and would consist of making it clear where the boundaries were.

The reason I was advocating summary justice was because I was emphasising the need for disciple to be immediate. The greater the gap between the offence and the punishment, the less effective the punishment is likely to be and the more unfair it is likely to seem to the child.

An example of the sort of summary justice I was thinking of was a technique my sister-in-law employed to stop her very young children constantly asking on trips, "Are we there yet?"

Before they left home, each of the children was given a handful of 5 cent pieces. Each time a child asked, "Are we there yet?", they had to immediately hand over one of the 5 cent pieces.

Apparently the immediacy of the loss of 5 cents very quickly had the desired effect.

I was thinking of children who are at the age where their time scale is quite different from ours. If you tell a very young child that something will happen next week, the way they see it you might as well be saying it will happen in 100 years time.

My comment was about avoiding a delay rather than about avoiding due process.

Working at a youth centre today,a kid of around 15yrs old is walking along with an officer,and we are working with another officer,in a fenced off area,about 2m from the locked van.

The kid picks up a handful of stones out of the garden and hurled them at my van.He then walks along another three meters,grabs another handful of stones and does it again.

Did the officers say anything,no not a word.

I say to the kid,are you right mate?He replies go and get #@&%$ed you @#$%&,etc,etc,a big torrid of abuse.

I didn't reply,as if the situation had escalated,we would have been thrown off the site,blamed for the whole incident and possibly banned from site for good.

Talking to the officers,that we know quite well,as we do a lot of work at the site,it appears the inmates get no discipline at all.None,zilch.

They smash anything they can get hold of,fight continually and don't have too much respect for anything.

In my opinion,a very bad situation,as they are not being rehabilitated at all.

If they are not being disciplined at all,how can they ever fit into society?

Quite obviously my opinion is completely wrong.

Those well paid people with their university qualifications know better....

You have better self control than I do Scarry. I would have walked straight up to the little ***** and belted him in the mouth - to hell with the consequences.

My wife is currently doing some voluntary work at the local Salvation army and gaining work experience in administration duties at the same time. Some of the stories she tells me of the things she sees there on an almost daily basis make my blood boil. I'm afraid I couldn't work in a place like that. The people who come in screaming at the staff demanding their "entitlements" would end up on the footpath outside, on their arse, in a sorry state I'm afraid.

Though I have been told that even the religious people down there swear at times.

You want a criminalized and violence based society, increase restrictions add more rules and laws and watch society go into chaos..

Well known, been done through different societies for thousands of years, and plenty of examples.. Why? good question, I dont know, but I think it may have to do with do gooders, people that think, by restricting it will make it better. Most societies that have peace, generally have little restriction but you will have pockets of trouble, thats when the restrictions start and it cascades from there...

In Western Australia, you can smack your child between the knee and hip, ie thigh... Not against the law here... Mind you, most people you talk to say it is, and so does Child welfare(dont know what they call it now).. Family law court will tell you there is no restriction except location and no obvious damage to the child... Hitting an adult that way is called assault..

Everything to do with raising humans or animals, comes back to using the methods that the species uses amongst themselves.. Most animals have a way of there own discipline, same as humans... If you can raise one species young, then you can raise another.. Thats the way I was taught by my mother,(my father had a freak accident when I was young, Mum took over his job)... We've raised stock for over 50 years, using the same principles.. Works well..Especially horses and children..

Every species has a "pecking order", and yes your right, it works well.

Yep, and our do-gooders and politically correct way of life have now stuffed our pecking order.

Originally Posted by Chops

Every species has a "pecking order", and yes your right, it works well.

Yep, and our do-gooders and politically correct way of life have now stuffed our pecking order.

Those juveniles will find all about 'pecking order'once they move up the road to the real jails........

A sad situation,but pretty obvious to me the system, as it is,is not working.

Apparently the statistics on the numbers here that reoffend is way higher than,for an eg,the US.

But the real figures are pretty difficult to fully analyse due to the way they are recorded.

Originally Posted by scarry

Working at a youth centre today,a kid of around 15yrs old is walking along with an officer,and we are working with another officer,in a fenced off area,about 2m from the locked van.

The kid picks up a handful of stones out of the garden and hurled them at my van.He then walks along another three meters,grabs another handful of stones and does it again.

Did the officers say anything,no not a word.

I say to the kid,are you right mate?He replies go and get #@&%$ed you @#$%&,etc,etc,a big torrid of abuse.

I didn't reply,as if the situation had escalated,we would have been thrown off the site,blamed for the whole incident and possibly banned from site for good.

Talking to the officers,that we know quite well,as we do a lot of work at the site,it appears the inmates get no discipline at all.None,zilch.

They smash anything they can get hold of,fight continually and don't have too much respect for anything.

In my opinion,a very bad situation,as they are not being rehabilitated at all.

If they are not being disciplined at all,how can they ever fit into society?

Quite obviously my opinion is completely wrong.

Those well paid people with their university qualifications know better....

I guess that's the difference between punishment and rehabilitation.
Loss of liberty is the punishment.
Rehabilitation requires a willingness to change. It can't be forced.
If that willingness to change is not there, there it's hard for rehabilitation to happen.
It would be interesting to know the kid's back story to try to understand why he is the way he is.