P Plates......are they really needed

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Originally Posted by Simon

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I know the affordabilty argument against, but if lessons are unaffordable how can you buy and maintain a vehicle in safe condition?
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Needing a driving licence and needing to own a vehicle are not the same thing. Not having a driving licence severely restricts what jobs someone can get. For those living in rural areas the cost and availability of lessons would be much greater than those living in the city. Yet another example of discrimination based on where you (or more commonly your parents - most sixteen year olds have little real choice!) live.

Having said that, I would agree that professional instruction would in many cases be an advantage, but it would need to be demonstrated that professional instructors were actually more capable of correctly training drivers for this system to have any significant improvement on the present system - implying rigorous certification and increased costs.

And it should be pointed out that the driver error component in causing most road accidents result not from lack of skill, but from either attitude to life in general or the Dunning-Kruger effect - drivers who think they are more skilled than they are. (often amplified by whatever it is they have been drinking or taking) It seems unlikely that instructors who are not qualified psychologists would have much effect on this.

John

Yes, they are.

John, in regard to driver training, it's being proven that well designed training scheme and dedicated places/centres actually reduced serious and fatal accidents. Austria actually demonstrates a drop in serious accidents and deaths amongst new drivers after they built and made mandatory training centres. Now their roads are more challenging than here when you throw in snow ,ice , mountain passes and autobahn open speeds.

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Originally Posted by JDNSW

Needing a driving licence and needing to own a vehicle are not the same thing. Not having a driving licence severely restricts what jobs someone can get. For those living in rural areas the cost and availability of lessons would be much greater than those living in the city. Yet another example of discrimination based on where you (or more commonly your parents - most sixteen year olds have little real choice!) live.

Having said that, I would agree that professional instruction would in many cases be an advantage, but it would need to be demonstrated that professional instructors were actually more capable of correctly training drivers for this system to have any significant improvement on the present system - implying rigorous certification and increased costs.

And it should be pointed out that the driver error component in causing most road accidents result not from lack of skill, but from either attitude to life in general or the Dunning-Kruger effect - drivers who think they are more skilled than they are. (often amplified by whatever it is they have been drinking or taking) It seems unlikely that instructors who are not qualified psychologists would have much effect on this.

John

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There is already a system for certifying driving instructors.
It's certainly true that attitude is the biggest factor.

Do they still have "Defensive Driving" courses?

I went to a boarding school & to be able to get our D/L during school hours you had to do so many professional driving lessons & a Defensive Driving course.

It was in the 70's so I don't recall all the details but I do recall a lot of what I learnt.

Jonesfam

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Originally Posted by DiscoMick

There is already a system for certifying driving instructors.
It's certainly true that attitude is the biggest factor.

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Yes, I know there is a system already in place - but I suspect it is not very good at treating psychological problems.

John

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Originally Posted by DiscoMick

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Everyone should have to inspect a blood-soaked vehicle wreck and meet disabled victims at least once in their life, I think.

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The reason that does not have as much effect as you might hope is that while people see the consequences of accidents, they believe that they will not have such an accident.

Road accidents are things that happen to other people. People think they are clever enough to avoid the accidents that other people have.

The normal reaction is, "It is terrible, but it won't happen to me."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JDNSW

Needing a driving licence and needing to own a vehicle are not the same thing. Not having a driving licence severely restricts what jobs someone can get. For those living in rural areas the cost and availability of lessons would be much greater than those living in the city. Yet another example of discrimination based on where you (or more commonly your parents - most sixteen year olds have little real choice!) live.

Having said that, I would agree that professional instruction would in many cases be an advantage, but it would need to be demonstrated that professional instructors were actually more capable of correctly training drivers for this system to have any significant improvement on the present system - implying rigorous certification and increased costs.

And it should be pointed out that the driver error component in causing most road accidents result not from lack of skill, but from either attitude to life in general or the Dunning-Kruger effect - drivers who think they are more skilled than they are. (often amplified by whatever it is they have been drinking or taking) It seems unlikely that instructors who are not qualified psychologists would have much effect on this.

John

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I would like to move to the German system. It costs about e1500 to get a drivers licence. However the instructors are very well qualified and the student needs to demonstrate proficiency in a wide range of driving conditions, e.g.:
Autobahns
Rural and Urban areas
In the dark
In the wet

Now that may sound expensive but you don't have to pay a renewal every few years like you do in AU.

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Originally Posted by isuzurover

I would like to move to the German system. It costs about e1500 to get a drivers licence. However the instructors are very well qualified and the student needs to demonstrate proficiency in a wide range of driving conditions, e.g.:
Autobahns
Rural and Urban areas
In the dark
In the wet

Now that may sound expensive but you don't have to pay a renewal every few years like you do in AU.

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Ding!!

Who turned on the light??

That sounds like a far better and more efficient method of achieving competent drivers.


Cheers



Sent from my GT-N5110 using AULRO mobile app

Quote:

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Originally Posted by isuzurover

I would like to move to the German system. It costs about e1500 to get a drivers licence. However the instructors are very well qualified and the student needs to demonstrate proficiency in a wide range of driving conditions, e.g.:
Autobahns
Rural and Urban areas
In the dark
In the wet

Now that may sound expensive but you don't have to pay a renewal every few years like you do in AU.

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And the incentive to behave is huge as well.
Losing a licence there is a very costly exercise.