Thread: Holden to close 30 outlets at the end of this year!

Originally Posted by d2dave

Maybe LR are learning from their mistake. We have just got back our LR dealer(Shepparton)

To me it would appear better in the Shepparton Land Rover dealership was returned to McPherson Motors, who had it for many years until LRA had their fit of stupidity and got rid of most of their dealers. New dealer is just another division of the local Darryl Twitt car dealership conglomerate.

Originally Posted by johntins

[The Aventura was a poor response to the Territory................................

Hardly a response - the Crewman Cross 8 (ute) and the Adventra (wagon) were both first introduced to the market in 2003. The Ford Territory was first introduced a year later in 2004.

Originally Posted by BMKal

Hardly a response - the Crewman Cross 8 (ute) and the Adventra (wagon) were both first introduced to the market in 2003. The Ford Territory was first introduced a year later in 2004.

The Territory was well known of, long before it launched. It was cliniced as the R7 at the 2002 Melbourne Motor Show in almost exactly the form it debuted in. Industry insiders were well aware of it before that. Holden was very well aware of how little they had to combat it. Just because you didn't see one before '04 does not mean Holden didn't. Holden simply did not have the time to develop one of their own, so they chucked the X8 stuff under a Commodore, gave it a plastic tailgate and sent it out to take attention away from Ford's looming COTY.

Both the Ford and the Holden products were known about well before their respective release dates. I remember seeing articles about the coming Holden 4WD range, particularly about the "Cross 8" ute (which Holden believed was going to be their big seller) long before I ever saw anything about a Ford "offroader" - and I was a regular buyer and reader of both the major Australian motoring wheels back in the day.

And "chucking a bit of CX8 running gear" under a Commodore wagon was really no different to Ford chucking a bit of all wheel drive running gear under an updated Falcon station wagon (yes - it was new body panels but not much else changed). I agree with you that Ford did the better job of the two (by a long shot) - but for anyone seriously looking for an off road capable vehicle - neither option was in the running.

Originally Posted by BMKal

Both the Ford and the Holden products were known about well before their respective release dates. I remember seeing articles about the coming Holden 4WD range, particularly about the "Cross 8" ute (which Holden believed was going to be their big seller) long before I ever saw anything about a Ford "offroader" - and I was a regular buyer and reader of both the major Australian motoring wheels back in the day.

And "chucking a bit of CX8 running gear" under a Commodore wagon was really no different to Ford chucking a bit of all wheel drive running gear under an updated Falcon station wagon (yes - it was new body panels but not much else changed). I agree with you that Ford did the better job of the two (by a long shot) - but for anyone seriously looking for an off road capable vehicle - neither option was in the running.

Totally agree that neither car was in the running. It's a shame really, because a 4WD Territory would have been something, especially the diesel.
Can't agree that the Territory was an upgraded wagon. They have virtually nothing in common, bar the basic platform, which is common practice, to reduce development costs. If they were the same, where are all the AWD Falcons that the modifiers would have built? However, it takes an eye for detail to pick the Adventra from any other Commodore wagon. They even put a version of X8 under the Monaro. From an engineering standpoint there is no comparison.
I saw the R7 at Melbourne that year. It is still viewable at the Ford Discovery Centre at Geelong, well, if that is still there I guess. It was very nearly identical to the production car. Territory was a completely new car, not an ad hoc thing thrown together.

I. too, was very interested in the industry in those days. I stand by my comment re 'response'. But, I'm happy to agree to differ.

Originally Posted by johntins

Totally agree that neither car was in the running. It's a shame really, because a 4WD Territory would have been something, especially the diesel.
Can't agree that the Territory was an upgraded wagon. They have virtually nothing in common, bar the basic platform, which is common practice, to reduce development costs. If they were the same, where are all the AWD Falcons that the modifiers would have built? However, it takes an eye for detail to pick the Adventra from any other Commodore wagon. They even put a version of X8 under the Monaro. From an engineering standpoint there is no comparison.
I saw the R7 at Melbourne that year. It is still viewable at the Ford Discovery Centre at Geelong, well, if that is still there I guess. It was very nearly identical to the production car. Territory was a completely new car, not an ad hoc thing thrown together.

I. too, was very interested in the industry in those days. I stand by my comment re 'response'. But, I'm happy to agree to differ.

I disagree John, the dash, ergo electrickery, are identical to my Fairlane. The interior, with a few dimensional tweaks, was lifted straight from the Falcon/Fairlane range. Isn't the rear diff/suspension the same independent unit as fitted to the sedans?

Originally Posted by V8Ian

I disagree John, the dash, ergo electrickery, are identical to my Fairlane. The interior, with a few dimensional tweaks, was lifted straight from the Falcon/Fairlane range. Isn't the rear diff/suspension the same independent unit as fitted to the sedans?

Yes. And the interior, engines, suspension are the same on a Golf and a Skoda Yeti. The Bentley Continental and the VW Phaeton share many suspension and driveline components. Are they they same cars? The Territory was a new car. It was not a Falcon Wagon. It has about as much in common with your Fairlane as a RRS ( old model ) has with a D4. Which, I'd agree, is a fair bit, but nobody calls a RRS a Discovery wagon.

Originally Posted by johntins

Fairlane as a RRS ( old model ) has with a D4. Which, I'd agree, is a fair bit, but nobody calls a RRS a Discovery wagon.

I would - and have called a RRS a D4 in a dinner suit.