The new defender, an opinion

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Originally Posted by Pickles2

I think you'll find they're not, not to be available in Aussie anyway. I have no idea what their worlwide sales were, but they'd be way more than what Defender was doing.....ie 13000.
13000 a year is nowhere near good enough.
It's been said, "You could Re-engineer it" (the Defender as we know it). Well, maybe you could, you could instal airbags, make it Euro 6 compliant with a new engine, give it an Anscap rating, but it would still be an "Old" Defender,....which I love, you love, but which has not, for many years, achieved anywhere near satisfactory sales.
"Upgrading" the "old" Defender would not make much difference to its sales,....it would still be the vehicle that it is,....which was attracting 13000 buyers a year,....upgrading/re-engineering would not generate 50,000 sales P.A.,....I've even heard JLR looking at a target of 100,000 for the new vehicle?
I'm excited to see the new one, I hope it's not as good ( what does "good" mean in this context!) as ours, but I fear that it will be good,...very good.
Only IMHO of course, Pickles.

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Actually, you're right. they stopped production last year. Their main market was North America. Less than 16,000 in the US and Canada.

As for the Defender, it has only been a niche vehicle for some years. It could easily keep going at that volume, but not if it had to be re-engineered. The R&D costs, the crash testing costs, and the emissions testing would all be prohibitive at that volume. So it died.

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Originally Posted by Pickles2

I think you'll find they're not, not to be available in Aussie anyway. I have no idea what their worlwide sales were, but they'd be way more than what Defender was doing.....ie 13000.
13000 a year is nowhere near good enough.
It's been said, "You could Re-engineer it" (the Defender as we know it). Well, maybe you could, you could instal airbags, make it Euro 6 compliant with a new engine, give it an Anscap rating, but it would still be an "Old" Defender,....which I love, you love, but which has not, for many years, achieved anywhere near satisfactory sales.
"Upgrading" the "old" Defender would not make much difference to its sales,....it would still be the vehicle that it is,....which was attracting 13000 buyers a year,....upgrading/re-engineering would not generate 50,000 sales P.A.,....I've even heard JLR looking at a target of 100,000 for the new vehicle?
I'm excited to see the new one, I hope it's not as good ( what does "good" mean in this context!) as ours, but I fear that it will be good,...very good.
Only IMHO of course, Pickles.

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You know, I miss your capitals. I think they defined you. Probably no surprise I disagree with you .I believe the new defender will move from being a vehicle for the masses, to one for a toy for the rich kids.

The defender needed to be killed off,it is an old design that desperately needed an upgrade.You can't,as mentioned here just fit airbags and say it's meets the standards,it doesn't and it won't in it's original design.People make reference to the cruiser,the cruiser is still an unsafe vehicle that does not pass European safety standards,something the defender has to.Upgrading the Defender would require a total redesign,simply making the buff front end pedestrian safe would be next to impossible,not to mention the firewall to fit airbags,by the time you finish you would change 90% of the vehicle so you may as well start over.You need to look at Toyota,even they have admitted upgrading the Cruiser was a waste of time and money and plan to replace it. Pat

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Originally Posted by PAT303

The defender needed to be killed off,it is an old design that desperately needed an upgrade.You can't,as mentioned here just fit airbags and say it's meets the standards,it doesn't and it won't in it's original design.People make reference to the cruiser,the cruiser is still an unsafe vehicle that does not pass European safety standards,something the defender has to.Upgrading the Defender would require a total redesign,simply making the buff front end pedestrian safe would be next to impossible,not to mention the firewall to fit airbags,by the time you finish you would change 90% of the vehicle so you may as well start over.You need to look at Toyota,even they have admitted upgrading the Cruiser was a waste of time and money and plan to replace it. Pat

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The replacement for the defender will be an Indian design. Already in production, meeting the standards. If the Indians can do it, why can't the English. ?

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Originally Posted by bob10

You know, I miss your capitals. I think they defined you. Probably no surprise I disagree with you .I believe the new defender will move from being a vehicle for the masses, to one for a toy for the rich kids.

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But Bob, "cap"s?,....I'm still using ém,.....check out post 4!
Pickles.

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Originally Posted by Pickles2

But Bob, "cap"s?,....I'm still using ém,.....check out post 4!
Pickles.

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Good for you, wouldn't be the same without them. Mr Pickles.

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Originally Posted by bob10

The replacement for the defender will be an Indian design. Already in production, meeting the standards. If the Indians can do it, why can't the English. ?

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Well, I think the English are "doing" it as demonstrated by Range Rover, Evoque, Disco, Disco Sport, Velar etc etc, and I think they'll "do" it again with the new Defender.
Not saying I'll like it, or you'll like it, but I reckon the vehicle will be good, and that it will appeal to the masses, which like it or not, car manufacturing, any manufacturing in fact, is all about,.....it's gotta "sell", which clearly the Defender was not.
Pickles.

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Originally Posted by Pickles2

Well, I think the English are "doing" it as demonstrated by Range Rover, Evoque, Disco, Disco Sport, Velar etc etc, and I think they'll "do" it again with the new Defender.
Not saying I'll like it, or you'll like it, but I reckon the vehicle will be good, and that it will appeal to the masses, which like it or not, car manufacturing, any manufacturing in fact, is all about,.....it's gotta "sell", which clearly the Defender was not.
Pickles.

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Pickles, old bean, the Indian designs are as far removed from the English ones, as rolls Royce from a model T. And more affordable, to the masses. The masses will not be able to afford the new Defender, that is a given. Nor will they be able to maintain it. And that is the bottom line.

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Originally Posted by bob10

Pickles, old bean, the Indian designs are as far removed from the English ones, as rolls Royce from a model T. And more affordable, to the masses. The masses will not be able to afford the new Defender, that is a given. Nor will they be able to maintain it. And that is the bottom line.

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Doesn't matter who can afford it & who can't,...as long as it sells,.....I wouldn't have a clue who'll buy it, but I'm confident that plenty will, as they have relative to every other vehicle JLR have produced of recent date.
Plenty of "Prophets of Doom" rubbished Evoque, and said it wouldn't sell,....they may just have been a little bit wrong.
Of course I have no idea, like everyone , what will be the new Defender, but I'm confident that JLR know what is required, and that the new Defender will be the, "Defender For The Time",...if that makes any sense.
Maybe I won't like it, I'm "old", I like "ölde worlde" stuff, which is probably why I like the Defender!
Pickles.

There was talk,,
about an 8 speed auto doing low and high range duties,,
wouldnt surprise me if the new Defer had this box and the new Ingenium engine,,
and brand new electronics,,,

as for metalwork,, ??