Speed limits different for different drivers and other thoughts.

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Originally Posted by Mick_Marsh

Mind if I quote you to the local road safety group. It seems the authorities solution to road safety is to lower the speed limit and let the roads fall into disrepair.

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If you want to, you may, but I doubt it will have any effect. Changing speed limits is cheaper than repairing roads! You could perhaps point out that road deaths are now way below suicide as a cause of death, and perhaps some of the money and energy spent on reducing road deaths could be spent on reducing suicides! Not to mention all the other causes of premature death that cause more than road trauma.

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Originally Posted by JDNSW

If you want to, you may, but I doubt it will have any effect. Changing speed limits is cheaper than repairing roads! You could perhaps point out that road deaths are now way below suicide as a cause of death, and perhaps some of the money and energy spent on reducing road deaths could be spent on reducing suicides! Not to mention all the other causes of premature death that cause more than road trauma.

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Tried that. Deaf ears.

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Originally Posted by JDNSW

Speak for yourself - in the seventies, I was driving round in a Citroen DS, which, while a little short on acceleration compared to some others about, had a higher top speed than most, and better handling, ride, lights, and brakes than most today.

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I too was a fan of the DS, although I could never have afforded one, but rose tinted hindsight cannot hide the fact that a DS would fail any safety test that cars face these days. It wouldn't score more than one in any of them. The only contemporary cars that might have a chance would be the Volvo 24*. the Saab 900, and most Benzes. Not one of them would score more than 3 in the NCAP. There are a trillion examples of this out there, none more enlightening than this one:

https://youtu.be/mLLanPwRgio

Feel free to skip the BS, the real action starts at about the 6 minute mark. And, yeah, I know things have changed. This is just an example of how things, and perceptions, have changed.

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Originally Posted by Mick_Marsh

Tried that. Deaf ears.

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Which brings us back to the argument that its all about revenue.

I know I rabbit on about Tabloids and Shock Jocks but really a billion dollars in speeding fines alone, takes a lot of pressure of the Media Moguls to put their hands in their pockets and actually pay some tax.

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Originally Posted by cuppabillytea

My first car was a 62 Ford Anglia. I would have to ring its bloody neck to get it up to merge speed on most slip lanes. If someone propped I was sunk. I learned to spot a stopper early so I could line them up to pass up the inside. There where lots of them. That was the early 70s. By the late 70s I was driving trucks and the incompetence level was pretty much the same except they were easier to spot, being mostly in Volvos or sporting Victorian Plated with a Bowling hat and big ears.

You're amongst it much more often than I am these days and I have to admit that I have seen some seriously bad attitude that is truly new to me, but that is rare.

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Dunno how much younger than you I might be, Billy, but my early experiences are quite similar. I learnt the same way, it seems. And, thankfully, I am not amongst it much anymore. Doesn't mean I'm no longer interested though. Like you, probably, I have grandkids. At least they have seen what I drive, and reckon that means I might be worth listening to. Even if they are the only ones that do, I reckon I may have helped a little.

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Originally Posted by johntins

This is just an example of how things, and perceptions, have changed.

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Have they? Perceptions maybe.
Didn't I read somewhere that the Mustang the Ford dealers are currently selling new have an ANCAP rating of two?
Ford Mustang scores concerning 2 star safety rating | ANCAP
And, yet, they're selling like hotcakes.

I still would rather drive around in my '65 Mercedes than anything modern. It exudes style.

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Originally Posted by cuppabillytea

Which brings us back to the argument that its all about revenue.

I know I rabbit on about Tabloids and Shock Jocks but really a billion dollars in speeding fines alone, takes a lot of pressure of the Media Moguls to put their hands in their pockets and actually pay some tax.

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Hear hear. When Brumby made it a line in his Budget back in 200* it became clear what the Government line was. I have no particular issue with fines per se, but when a State Treasurer puts it in as a line of revenue that his budget predictions depend upon you have to wonder if "prevention" is what they are seeking.

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Originally Posted by Mick_Marsh

Have they? Perceptions maybe.
Didn't I read somewhere that the Mustang the Ford dealers are currently selling new have an ANCAP rating of two?
Ford Mustang scores concerning 2 star safety rating | ANCAP
And, yet, they're selling like hotcakes.

I still would rather drive around in my '65 Mercedes than anything modern. It exudes style.

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The Mustang is a disgrace, and shouldn't be here. It's yet another example of how Dearborn screwed Australia when they closed local production. They could easily have based the Mustang on the Falcon, and enjoyed an ANCAP OF 5.

The Mustang may be selling, but it is extremely low volume, and all it really proves is that there is a market for something different. I would bet Morgan could sell every car they sent here, and in Morgan's world ANCAP is 50 years away. In fact, I reckon people would by a new Moke, if only they could. Personally, I'd love to be able to buy a Cooper S, and by that I most certainly do not mean the travesty that BMW gives us.

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Originally Posted by johntins

Only drove a 'real' one once. My sister lived next door to a Ford Exec. I was 18, just, when he brought home an Electric Blue XY HO.
[...]
And Tact? I remember that quote too. The mystique was almost cemented from that quote.

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Mine lacked the "handling options" and the much desired two letter acronym that comes with them. But somewhere between Toowoomba and Dalby I tried the "slightly brutal" change into top gear at 100mph for the first time. At about 7-8yo (the vehicle, new to me) could still "induce wheelspin".

A peer had a GTR XUI at that time and a few years later his younger brother had a SL/R5000. All of us still alive today despite idiot stunts. (...and more surprisingly alive is dear me, as I transitioned to fast two wheeled conveyances later).

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Originally Posted by johntins

I too was a fan of the DS, although I could never have afforded one, but rose tinted hindsight cannot hide the fact that a DS would fail any safety test that cars face these days. It wouldn't score more than one in any of them. The only contemporary cars that might have a chance would be the Volvo 24*. the Saab 900, and most Benzes. Not one of them would score more than 3 in the NCAP. There are a trillion examples of this out there, none more enlightening than this one:

https://youtu.be/mLLanPwRgio

Feel free to skip the BS, the real action starts at about the 6 minute mark. And, yeah, I know things have changed. This is just an example of how things, and perceptions, have changed.

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The problem with NCAP is that it places nearly all 'safety' scores on crash survivability or secondary safety. In terms of primary safety, or avoiding the accident in the first place, there are few cars even today that are better, and outstanding for a 1955 design. Consider:-

Dual power (not power assist) braking system, with front/rear braking effort proportioned to load on the axles. Zero brake pedal travel (pressure sensitive), with the pedal below the level of the accelerator, cutting critical reaction time off braking, Inboard front discs. No high pressure hoses except to rear brakes on late models.

Centreline steering geometry, resulting in no loss of control with flat front tyre - in fact can be stopped in a straight line at maximum braking effort from 150kph with one front tyre flat and hands off the wheel.

Full visibility forward with the bonnet up or back with the boot open. Narrow windscreen pillars giving far better forward visibility than anything today.

Standard tyres (Michelin XAS) best available in the seventies, giving exceptional adhesion.

Standard headlight system the best available in the seventies - steering high beam, self levelling low beam, halogen bulbs when this was almost unheard of.

Very low centre of gravity, suspension system with no rubber and chassis alignment parameters to 0.1mm gave excellent handling and extended tyre life.

Even on crash safety, by seventies standards they were way ahead - collapsible front end, safety steering column, fuel tank enclosed inside body structure in front of rear wheels, side intrusion rails, Semicircular plan front bumper tends to deflect quartering collisions from the front. Again, not bad for a 1955 design.

Certainly they had safety deficits by current standards - no airbags, no ABS, relatively poor rollover protection, probably a few others I can't think of. But we were talking about the 1970s.

(Other drawbacks of them, even by 1970s standards, not safety related. - exceptionally long wheelbase coupled with exceptionally good steering lock made it very easy to sideswipe gate posts etc, noisy due to lack of suspension rubber, and frameless door windows; difficult to install decent aircon; upright seating position; 'different'.)