Thread: Speed limits different for different drivers and other thoughts.

Originally Posted by cuppabillytea

There were 1/3 the total deaths recorded in 1970, in 2016, and 2016 saw an increase over the previous year.
There were 1/5 the number of deaths per registered vehicle.
This is actually a vast improvement and it belies the bollocks we're fed by the tabloids and shock jocks, about the need for tougher laws and tighter restrictions.
Most, if not all of this improvement is probably due to better vehicle design and better roads. Even so, there is no evidence that I can see that drivers are getting any worse.
I reckon young drivers are generally better today than I was but of course I could be an exception.

I can't prove drivers are getting any worse, Billy, but I reckon they are based on observation. I see people stop at the bottom of a freeway on ramp because they have frozen through fear. I contend that they therefore have no right to be there. I see people exit a side road directly in front of a heavy vehicle. I pity their families, as one day that will cost them their life.

I don't think people have become 'worse', but I think their attitude has. There is little respect for others these days. There is certainly little respect for the law, or it's enforcers, although I believe that is their own fault.

Young drivers, I believe, ARE worse. Not because of themselves, but because of the system. They are taught "the rules", but they aren't taught "the responsibilities". Neither was I, of course, but I learned in a far easier time, and could get on with experience, which fortunately I have, not without some very close calls.

Side note:

I have a mate who called me out from Laverton, when I live in the Dandenongs, after I had driven him to Geelong to pick up a 3 tonne truck he needed. It was Midnight. I had left him at 5:00. Geelong to Laverton is about 30 minutes. I had to go back and get him because he was unable to cope with the traffic and the dark. The Geelong freeway is three lanes each way, it isn't particularly heavily trafficked, and there is ample room for escape if things go pear shaped. Why is he still a driver with a licence? My father was pulled over when he was 89 because he was on the wrong side of the road, on the Melba Highway. Fortunately the copper took him off the road before he killed someone ( this was about 1994, the copper wouldn't be there today). It is to my eternal shame that I didn't do it first. I'm not sure what our camera driven traffic enforcement has done to help.

I hear people bragging about never having had a ticket. The way things are these days, all that means is either a, they don't drive much, or b, they only drive where they know. Or, of course c, they drive all the time looking at their speedo.

I reckon this very heavy reliance on technology for "enforcement" is actually the enemy of road safety. A speeding ticket in the mail is just another bill. In no way does it educate. 10 minutes on the roadside with a car with red and blues is a much more pertinent lesson. Doesn't bring in the $$$ as quickly though.

Totally agree about the better roads and cars thing. Imagine the carnage if we had today's population, but we were on the roads of the early 70's driving HG Holdens.

Sorry about the long winded rant.

Originally Posted by trout1105

The new car designs ARE better, They have to be because they are considerably faster and more powerful than the pieces of crap we used to drive around in the seventies

No. They are because Governments say they must be.

I agree though. My BA 4.0 L Ford is way quicker than any "muscle car" of the 70's.

Edit: "reliably quicker". I don't think it would beat a GTHO. Not the first time, anyway. 10 runs? Anyone's guess.

Originally Posted by johntins

No. They are because Governments say they must be.

I agree though. My BA 4.0 L Ford is way quicker than any "muscle car" of the 70's.

Edit: "reliably quicker". I don't think it would beat a GTHO. Not the first time, anyway. 10 runs? Anyone's guess.

"By being only slightly brutal in the change to top gear at 100mph one can induce wheelspin."

That quote is what I remember from a Wheels magazine write up of a road test of the then (1970) new Falcon XY GT. I was just 11yo and had to have one. Some years later I did. That level of performance in a brick of a vehicle with braking and handling shockingly worse than today's high performance family sedans. It's a wonder some of us live to tell.

If you look at the curve of road death statistics over the years, especially 'per vehicle' or better 'per kilometre (although there is no good data on actual statistics, just guesses as to how far the average vehicle travels), it becomes clear that there has been a fairly steady improvement ever since statistics started. The only changes in rules or enforcement that can be reliably seen in this curve are compulsory seatbelt wearing and random breath testing.

My view is that the major part of the improvement has been due to road improvements (using this term widely, including signage, lights, etc as well as the actual road construction, with vehicle improvements rather secondary to these, secondary, because the benefit of the improvements has largely been eroded by the increase in power/weight, so that cars spend a lot more of their time at higher speeds than in the past.

Road improvements are not necessarily dramatic, although a comparison of the accident rates per vehicle on a two lane road and after it is converted to a four lane divided road are usually dramatic. Over the last 25 years or so I have lived here, I see an accumulation of small improvements on roads I drive regularly - realignment of curves, wider shoulders, edge marking, controlled instead of uncontrolled level crossings, turning lanes, none very big individually, but adding up to much safer roads.

Originally Posted by trout1105

The new car designs ARE better, They have to be because they are considerably faster and more powerful than the pieces of crap we used to drive around in the seventies

Speak for yourself - in the seventies, I was driving round in a Citroen DS, which, while a little short on acceleration compared to some others about, had a higher top speed than most, and better handling, ride, lights, and brakes than most today.

Originally Posted by JDNSW

If you look at the curve of road death statistics over the years, especially 'per vehicle' or better 'per kilometre (although there is no good data on actual statistics, just guesses as to how far the average vehicle travels), it becomes clear that there has been a fairly steady improvement ever since statistics started. The only changes in rules or enforcement that can be reliably seen in this curve are compulsory seatbelt wearing and random breath testing.

My view is that the major part of the improvement has been due to road improvements (using this term widely, including signage, lights, etc as well as the actual road construction, with vehicle improvements rather secondary to these, secondary, because the benefit of the improvements has largely been eroded by the increase in power/weight, so that cars spend a lot more of their time at higher speeds than in the past.

Road improvements are not necessarily dramatic, although a comparison of the accident rates per vehicle on a two lane road and after it is converted to a four lane divided road are usually dramatic. Over the last 25 years or so I have lived here, I see an accumulation of small improvements on roads I drive regularly - realignment of curves, wider shoulders, edge marking, controlled instead of uncontrolled level crossings, turning lanes, none very big individually, but adding up to much safer roads.

Mind if I quote you to the local road safety group. It seems the authorities solution to road safety is to lower the speed limit and let the roads fall into disrepair.

Originally Posted by tact

"By being only slightly brutal in the change to top gear at 100mph one can induce wheelspin."

That quote is what I remember from a Wheels magazine write up of a road test of the then (1970) new Falcon XY GT. I was just 11yo and had to have one. Some years later I did. That level of performance in a brick of a vehicle with braking and handling shockingly worse than today's high performance family sedans. It's a wonder some of us live to tell.

Only drove a 'real' one once. My sister lived next door to a Ford Exec. I was 18, just, when he brought home an Electric Blue XY HO. I had been dribbling on his fence for some time, 'cos he always had something. Now, though, I had a licence. No soppy P Plate restrictions in those days. I cannot ever recall being more scared in my entire life. It was the singular most shattering experience I can remember. The noise, the feeling that the earth was moving, the Shaker. Nothing I have done has equalled it, that first time.

Later on, I had a girlfriend who had a L34 Torana. It may have been quicker than the HO, I don't know, nor do I care. I have driven a Bolwell Nagari, a DeTomao Pantera, a Jensen Interceptor, a Porsche, well, a few Porsches, a Ferrari 355 and quite a few others, including Evo Mitsys, and one one very memorable occasion a Lancia Delta Integrale 16V, but nothing compares to that 20 minutes that Ford guy gave me with that car. It amazes me to this day that I can go down to many new car dealers and buy something that is quicker.

And Tact? I remember that quote too. The mystique was almost cemented from that quote.

Originally Posted by JDNSW

Speak for yourself - in the seventies, I was driving round in a Citroen DS, which, while a little short on acceleration compared to some others about, had a higher top speed than most, and better handling, ride, lights, and brakes than most today.

Yes, the Euro cars were quite advanced compared to the raw agricultural Aussie stuff.
I have a W109. Back in the day (1970) the W109 6.3 had a higher top speed than a GTHO, was faster in acceleration than a GTHO, quicker on the standing quarter than a GTHO and a luxury saloon to boot. It also handled better on it's air suspension.
Sadly, my W109 is only a 3.5.

Oh, the raw, agricultural Aussie muscle cars, I'd love one. An A9X is my personal favourite closely followed by an XY GTHO.