Britain to ban diesel and petrol vehicles

**Captain_Rightfoot** · 26th July 2017, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by p38arover

You forgot the important bit - without it, the message is totally skewed.

Sales of NEW diesel and petrol vehicles.

I was going to say that but you beat me to it. Banning the sale of new petrol and diesel vehicles in 2040 is very different to outright banning petrol and diesel vehicles.

Germany is talking about banning the sale of these vehicles by 2030.

Germany pushes to ban petrol-fuelled cars within next 20 years | The Independent

I am really divided on all this stuff. As I own a diesel vehicle I do fully understand their attraction. I also understand that they enable heavy good transportation, agriculture, and rural transport for which at this point there is no clear alternative - particularly in the Australian context.

What I don't like about diesel is it's really toxic stuff. The nature of the fuel is that it produces very fine particles which aren't good when breathed in. I'm told by people who work in engine design that there is no real way around this.. it's the nature of the fuel. You can put all the emissions stuff on there you like, and it just reduces the problem but it can't be eliminated. Most people probably think it's worth it unless it's them or a loved one who gets lung cancer or heart disease.

The truth about diesel

What I also don't like about diesels is that the economy they enable has allowed the evolution of bigger vehicles. Ie mum used to drive the kids around in a laser, but now she won't be seen dead in less than a Prado. Without the evolution of diesel engines I doubt this would have been possible to the extent it has happened (to the point that SUV's are now 50% of the car market). Car manufacturers have encouraged this at large vehicles mean larger profits.

In general.. the cheaper and more amenable we make car's just means we will use them more. If you want to read some more on this then have a scan through this - although I don't blame people for not wanting to read about it as it's unlikely to be a popular line of reasoning on a 4x4 forum.

Jevons paradox - Wikipedia

**Tins** · 26th July 2017, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by trout1105

I would hazard to guess that a huge percentage of vehicle pollution is created in the urban areas and that is the obvious place to make a start.

In London they already have the congestion charge. Staggering how many people choose to pay it. Electric cars are exempt, which, when you consider the size of a Tesla S, shows that it isn't road congestion they are taxing, it is another green tax. The smart people were registering their cars as minicabs, which are also exempt.

But I agree, high density cities, where the prevailing weather does not include winds, is a good place to start. London had the worst record of anywhere for respiratory disease, until they introduced 'smokeless coal' for house warming in the '50s. London's famous "pea soupers" became a thing of the past.

On Ron's point: at the end of 2016 there were 31.7 Million cars in Britain. Not including what they call lorries. It increases every year. So, in 2040, there could be 40 million. So, yes, totally skewed, misleading headline.

Next question. Where is all that electricity going to come from? Britain uses enormous quantities of of electricity already, and are struggling to keep up. They have given the go ahead for 8 new nukes, but it's highly unlikely they will be built and online in time to meet Britain's existing projected demand, let alone power all those cars. So, burn more gas and oil then.

DiscoMick · 26th July 2017, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by trout1105

I would think that more Aussies would die of starvation than pollution if they banned diesel or petrol

In Europe driving a hundred miles is a huge distance But here in Aus that would be the average commute for many.
Until there is a Viable alternative to fossil fuels then the Ships, Trucks and trains that cover vast distances that are needed to supply ALL of our needs will continue to use them.

The ban is new diesel and petrol cars and vans, so it doesn't include trucks, trains, buses or ships.

That was an interesting link posted above about the truth about diesel. Thanks.
So more people die from vehicle exhaust pollution than are killed on Australian roads each year. Interesting.
Don't think I'll be blocking the EGR on the Defender.

**ozscott** · 26th July 2017, 04:17 PM

It's all well and good to tax people driving onto cities but there are many of us that have no public transport options. Until they remedy this a blanket tax absurd. Cheers

DiscoMick · 26th July 2017, 04:19 PM

Wednesday briefing: Cleaner air for Britain –*thanks to the EU

Wednesday briefing: Cleaner air for Britain – thanks to the EU | World news | The Guardian

**Captain_Rightfoot** · 26th July 2017, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by ozscott

It's all well and good to tax people driving onto cities but there are many of us that have no public transport options. Until they remedy this a blanket tax absurd. Cheers

And this is the problem... there is no public transport because everyone drives. Our roads are congested with people now who have public transport options but choose to drive anyway for many reasons.

**ozscott** · 26th July 2017, 04:24 PM

If had public transport in my area I would not drive. Cheers

**BathurstTom** · 26th July 2017, 04:27 PM

Inter city electric trains in Australia?

Tom.

**Tins** · 26th July 2017, 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by BathurstTom

Inter city electric trains in Australia?

Tom.

Nah, they are already hybrid.

**Tins** · 26th July 2017, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by ozscott

If had public transport in my area I would not drive. Cheers

You must be a bit further west of Brisbane than you profile lets on.

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