Landcruiser & Caravan Rollover - Badly loaded ??

I'm afraid that I have difficulty with the concept of requiring special education and licencing for every change in conditions. This one is for towing trailers. I do not know the statistics, but I rather doubt that accidents involving trailers (where the fact there was a trailer had anything to do with it) are a rather small fraction of total accidents. Partly simply because most incompetent trailer drivers just don't do much of it. And most trailer drivers do do an adequate job, as shown by the fact that these accidents are rare.

If you are going to require special licencing for towing, why not for many of the other circumstances where the conditions differ from the car and conditions you learnt in? Some rather higher than trailers on the list might include rural driving for city dwellers or city driving for rural dwellers, driving in remote areas, driving without ABS, driving with ABS, and of course, the old faithful one of a four wheel drive licence!

There are a number of reasons why none of these are ever likely to happen, including the limits they would place on youth employment, and the backlash from voters like myself - who has been towing trailers for over fifty years - and the only accident I have ever had involving a trailer was when an idiot (phone user I think) ran into the back of my trailer while I was stationary, waiting to turn right, and had been for some time.

And if education and licencing does not prevent new drivers from having accidents while drunk and way over the speed limit, when both zero alcohol and speed limits have been a major part of the education, why do you think it would work for trailers?

I guess one easily managed towing rule would be to enforce the advice that a towball weight must be about 10 percent of the trailer weight. I know it's not a perfect guide, but it could be easily checked by a weighing station. Requiring trailer registration to include such a test could expose the worst cases and educate people.
Another easy test would be to use a level to ensure a towing vehicle is not down at the bum.
We have random breath testing so why not random trailer testing? It could be done using the truck testing stations on major highways, which seem to sit unused most of the time anyway.
Another measure could be to make anti-sway compulsory on caravans, as it is now on many new vehicles. Jayco already offers anti-sway.
What do you think?

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Originally Posted by 1nando

Best thing to do in that situation is to actually accelerate.

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That would have to be most useless theory ever. If for some reason you get into trailer sway when travelling downhill towards an intersection, accelerating is certain tragedy.The only thing to do is stamp on the brake pedal repeatedly at the exact moments when the sway is just starting to return to centre. That technique washes speed off quickly while counteracting the sway as it's happening, but your timing had better be good. It's saved my bacon a couple of times on my poorly thought out youthful towing trips with over ride brakes.

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Originally Posted by weeds

Should I tell work i can no longer tow our trailers.....although it's only 2T with override brakes and I sit on the speed limit even the 110 zones. The next one will be bigger and heavier.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...017/07/723.jpg

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Can't see the point of this post. Do you think you are capable of towing this trailer? Do you think the car/van/whatever is capable of towing it? Do you think we should accept your decision on these questions, when our lives depend on YOUR choice? Nobody accepts MY ability to drive something out of the ordinary, but I should accept yours?
I have always enjoyed your posts, weeds. I think that you are probably, based on what I've read, a smart operator who can do many things. This makes ME an idiot. Some bloke I met on a forum? How stupid is that??

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Originally Posted by JDNSW

And most trailer drivers do do an adequate job, as shown by the fact that these accidents are rare.

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Rare? How much time do you spend on, say, the Newell? At school holiday time? It happens with monotonous regularity, John. People sometimes lose their lives. You and I grew up when you had to be able to cope with whatever it was. Road toll was bad then, too.

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Originally Posted by JDNSW

If you are going to require special licencing for towing, why not for many of the other circumstances where the conditions differ from the car and conditions you learnt in?

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I'm on record here calling for exactly that. Had an exchange with you about it then as well. I don't mind having it again. Get a licence for what you want to do. If driving to the shops is what you want, fine, get a licence for that. Should be cheap. Want to drive from say Shepparton to Deniliquin, another licence endorsement. Want to drive from Shepparton to Melbourne, using the M80 Ring Road onto the Tulla freeway, onto the Monash Freeway through the tunnel, at least another endorsement. Every part of that last trip I described should make you think. When did you last do it? I know that you have been around, and that you could do it, but when did you? Would you be happy if you're newly licenced, in whatever part of rural NSW you live in, granddaughter set off to drive into Melbourne tomorrow? I have seen fully grown adults weeping because they couldn't cope. Getting a Licence in, say, Finley does not set you up to deal with the M80. Nor the M5/M7 for that matter. The days of heading out and seeing are long gone, unfortunately. You did it. I did it. But times have changed.

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Originally Posted by weeds

Should I tell work i can no longer tow our trailers.....although it's only 2T with override brakes and I sit on the speed limit even the 110 zones. The next one will be bigger and heavier.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...017/07/723.jpg

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Yep. Either that or trade in your Hyundai i30 for a bigger vehicle.

Interestingly, my Commodore, with the heavy duty tow kit, is only rated to tow about 1600kg. I think the Ford Territory is the same.
I find it surprising how little family cars are rated to tow nowdays. You need to get a small truck to tow anything descent.

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Originally Posted by bee utey

That would have to be most useless theory ever. If for some reason you get into trailer sway when travelling downhill towards an intersection, accelerating is certain tragedy.The only thing to do is stamp on the brake pedal repeatedly at the exact moments when the sway is just starting to return to centre. That technique washes speed off quickly while counteracting the sway as it's happening, but your timing had better be good. It's saved my bacon a couple of times on my poorly thought out youthful towing trips with over ride brakes.

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This theory is exactly why I wound up over the embankment. Control lost. Go faster. Control lost even more, only now going faster. Not sure if I would have had the balls to try your way, bee utey, but I never had the time, so I will never know. Makes sense, though.

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Originally Posted by Mick_Marsh

You need to get a small truck to tow anything descent.

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Might be a reason for that, MM.

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Originally Posted by DiscoMick

I guess one easily managed towing rule would be to enforce the advice that a towball weight must be about 10 percent of the trailer weight. I know it's not a perfect guide, but it could be easily checked by a weighing station. Requiring trailer registration to include such a test could expose the worst cases and educate people.
Another easy test would be to use a level to ensure a towing vehicle is not down at the bum.
We have random breath testing so why not random trailer testing? It could be done using the truck testing stations on major highways, which seem to sit unused most of the time anyway.
Another measure could be to make anti-sway compulsory on caravans, as it is now on many new vehicles. Jayco already offers anti-sway.
What do you think?

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Us truck drivers accept that we have to deal with the weighbridge stuff. After all, it is written into our Test. Imagine the outcry if the average punter had to comply as well. All the Current Affair sooks would be screaming about their rights, never mind the fact that they were screaming about the truck driver the show had set up the night before. Couldn't possibly be about them, could it?

Time for people to accept their responsibilities, IMO. Time to stop blaming everybody else. Time for user pays.

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Originally Posted by DiscoMick

I guess one easily managed towing rule would be to enforce the advice that a towball weight must be about 10 percent of the trailer weight. I know it's not a perfect guide, but it could be easily checked by a weighing station. Requiring trailer registration to include such a test could expose the worst cases and educate people.
Another easy test would be to use a level to ensure a towing vehicle is not down at the bum.
We have random breath testing so why not random trailer testing? It could be done using the truck testing stations on major highways, which seem to sit unused most of the time anyway.
Another measure could be to make anti-sway compulsory on caravans, as it is now on many new vehicles. Jayco already offers anti-sway.
What do you think?

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Not all advice is good and IMHO, the 10% rule is a one of the not so good ones. I only have and M.R. license so cannot comment on the big stuff but I have only ever had 150 (max) ball weight on a dual axle trailer. I have towed cars up and down the east coast, even Sydney - Darwin rtn a few times. Nan & I have a 20' van and I move a 2T scissor lift around on my car trailer nearly on a daily basis. Always loaded correctly and never had the tail wagging the dog, ever and, as stated earlier, if you cannot reverse the jigger (preferably with mirrors) then don't tow the bloody thing.