Anti Land Rover Mechanics. Lazy? Ignorant? Other?

I have heard of lots of problems with modern LR, some of them being brand new.
I never liked the early land cruiser, after being used to LR, it was like getting in to a horse and cart .
I wouldn’t have bought a LR in a fit, but I was asked to take this one for a drive (I was sucked in)
And I had to buy it.
As always I never buy anything that doesn’t need fixing and it needs fixing, i will see how I go

I've had mixed experiences. I've had an independent LR workshop refuse to replace seals in a steering box, said they'd only replace the box, and found another local workshop (non LR specific) that did the seals only no problem (it remains leak free to this day). Another local 'generic' workshop had the attitude that the defenders are just another diesel 4wd and they were very happy to have the business from any make. It did make my blood boil when another non LR specific workshop charged me stealer genuine part full RRP prices for crap after-market filters .... encouraged me to learn how to service the thing myself though. I suspect country independent mechanics are a bit more versatile.

I find most are just inept and not real mechanics any more, more mechanical fitters as very few actually rebuild and repair, they just replace.
When they state Land Rovers are too difficult to work on this shows that they are truly inept and not a decent mechanics butthole. A proper mechanic can work on any car, yes they may need some specifics for certain jobs, but an engine is an engine is an engine. My BIL is a diesel mechanic, primarily heavy duty diesel, but will work on any engine from the smallest stationary to motor bikes to 4x4, trucks and heavy earthmoving. Yes at times he has to get specific information but wont baulk at a job because he does not know the specifics.

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Originally Posted by sam_d

I recently had cause to need mechanical assistance on my big trip around WA. It was only a small item, and thanks to help from members of AULRO, I knew what the problem was and how to fix it. I just needed someone with mechanical experience and a workshop to do it.

However, being deep in Land Cruiser country I found help a little hard to come by and began to wonder if the the whole anti Land Rover stance was due to ignorance, laziness, or perhaps something else.

The first mechanic I went to showed a good amount of ignorance. "I've never worked on Land Rovers. Never have. Never will. They're too difficult to work on." How do you you know a Land Rover is difficult to work on if you've never worked on one?

The second mechanic was lazy. "We don't carry Land Rover parts. Nobody round here does. Now, we've got every Land Cruiser part you can think of so if you have a problem with you Land Cruiser we can keep swapping parts out until the problem goes away." So you don't even bother to properly diagnose a problem? You just keep swapping parts out?

To be fair to the second guy, I wouldn't have expected anyone local to carry spare part I needed but admitting you just keep replacing parts and hoping for the best made me wonder about his competency.

And finally, I got the usual "Land Rovers are unreliable." spiel from both. One added the contradictory "They come into town after doing the Gibb River Road and pass straight through onto Darwin. We never see them in the workshop. Land Cruisers on the other hand, we're always full of them!"

Again, to be fair, deep in Land Cruiser country a mechanic will have more Land Cruisers in than anything else just due to the numbers of them. But claiming Land Rovers are unreliable because they never make an appearance in your workshop is a bit odd.

So, I'm trying to work out what this issue really is. I think laziness and ignorance go a long way to answering the problem but there is certainly a mix of incompetence and car make parochialism too.

Any thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Tote

Interestingly a lot of the people that I run into that are capable of proper fault finding are ex military types, not sure if that's a Canberra thing

Regards,
Tote

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I can assure you it is their training. WTF is a Canberra thing, anyway? Really.

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Originally Posted by bob10

I can assure you it is their training. WTF is a Canberra thing, anyway? Really.

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A Canberra thing would be the number of ex millitary types that are in greater abundance around Canberra than in other places that I have worked. Really.

Regards,
Tote

When I worked on satellite earth stations in the late Sixties/early Seventies, the Plant Officers who looked after the cryogenics, air conditioning, diesels, power, hydraulics, etc., were all ex-Navy or had worked in PNG.

They were the only blokes who had learned to work on anything.

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Originally Posted by Tote

A Canberra thing would be the number of ex millitary types that are in greater abundance around Canberra than in other places that I have worked. Really.

Regards,
Tote

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Very Illuminating. Thank you.

The biggest trouble I've had locally is the need for "special" tools to remove certain things. I know an FBH can be substituted for ball joint pullers but even to press a bearing out you needed a special LR specific tool so that you didn't damage anything. You could probably make one up (they're bloody expensive) but i can understand why you couldn't be bothered if its something you'll only use once or twice.

I should highlight there are those that do a bloody good job though and should not alienate them as this is a generic comment aimed at the some stealers and run of the mill mechanics and those that can only service 1 brand.

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Originally Posted by CraigE

I find most are just inept and not real mechanics any more, more mechanical fitters as very few actually rebuild and repair, they just replace.
When they state Land Rovers are too difficult to work on this shows that they are truly inept and not a decent mechanics butthole. A proper mechanic can work on any car, yes they may need some specifics for certain jobs, but an engine is an engine is an engine. My BIL is a diesel mechanic, primarily heavy duty diesel, but will work on any engine from the smallest stationary to motor bikes to 4x4, trucks and heavy earthmoving. Yes at times he has to get specific information but wont baulk at a job because he does not know the specifics.

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Yes I know this is a very old thread but for the amusement of fellow LR owners, I thought I'd share my most recent experience of dealing with one of the "expert" mechanics in the area, I have used this guy before for simple jobs and figured installing a replacement radiator was within his range of skills - wrong!

New copper/brass radiator arrived - a long and expensive story. It did not come with the oil cooler spigots. Mechanic confused. Graeme Cooper's sent me the set that fitted the radiator but not the cooler lines. Mechanic more confused. Fortunately I had the ones from the original radiator so these were cut and silver soldered onto the new ones - problem solved and radiator installed

Purchased expensive but excellent cleaner from Liquid Intelligence despite "mechanic" claiming it was unnecessary. I rigged up a bypass tank so the emulsified oil in the coolant passages would not clog the new radiator. With mechanic's "help" got out most of the gunk. This left the mechanic to flush it again and test it. Paid for labor to date (not including radiator or spigot fabrication $300

All above was the good news! Now for the sequel - First a statement that he would "pull out the engine tomorrow" - I declined. Here is the email exchange (comments in blue are mine):

We returned to your car today,

We started it and surprisingly it ran on 8 cylinder. It took 2 litres of water in the header tank. Oil is leaking around base of distributor.

Would you agree it is most likely an air lock from when it was filled ?

There is still a lot of oil in the header tank and I believe it is from the previous episode. not current problems.

Yes- seems certain it is OLD oil still in coolant so it needs to be flushed again - this time, your dish washing option will be best

We checked the oil pressure it was 26psi at idle engine warm not hot. Don't know what the spec is but I would expect better than that. Could be a blocked strainer, broken pump relief valve spring, worn engine bearings or worn pump.

Hot idle oil pressure can be as low as 20psi and not risk the engine. Have you or will you please clean the pressure relief valve? Was the oil pressure switch replaced with the new one sent from Cooper's last week? Some of the AURO guys have reported oil pressure problems caused by clogged anti drainback valves on the oil filters. Obviously these are cheap things to check before ripping the engine apart

I assume you wanted to check your air flow metre that was attached to the car. It seemed to work ok.

Yes, it is the one in the car that needed checking and although there are electrical measurement to do this, the simplest way is to remove it, unscrew the sensor section and visually check that the fine wires are intact. Only if that inspection fails should it be be necessary to replace it. Stuart tells me a faulty MAF will affect idling but will not cause the engine to misfire significantly

The spark plugs were removed but not replaced as they were NGK iridium spark plugs. Some showed signs of oil fouling The passenger side seemed worse than the drivers side.

The compression pressures starting on the drivers side and starting at the front and moving backward are 140 130 130 120 all in psi The compression pressure then starting on the passenger side at the front and moving backwards are 140 110 140 120 all in psi Any of the figures under 140 had a wet test done and they improved approximately 10 psi indicating a burnt valve.

The passenger's side are cylinders 1,3,5 & 7 and from what you say below, that is where the lowest compression occurred, though the reading are not far enough out to cause me a great deal of concern. As you say, it could be a valve - burned or maybe just sticking

Please advise where you want to go from here.

Good question. Maybe I'm stupid but I still cannot image why an engine running so well before the radiator incident should now be in so much trouble For that reason, I'm not inclined to have the rings or head gaskets done just yet. I suggest (per above):
Clean out the cooling passages again until the gunk has been largely eliminated
Clean the oil pressure relief valve
Fit the replacement oil pressure switch if not already done
Visually check the MAF hot-wires if not already done
Put a can of valve cleaner into the oil and run the engine for a while
Recheck that the ignition timing is set on 13 BFTDC

Now for the really fun part:

Verbal advice from mechanic " You have to trust me" " I have been doing this for 40 years" " it is almost certainly the missing thermostat causing the problem" "I'll drop the sump" Mt answer "No you will not"

Later - "Took car for a run, Oil light came on again. It was almost out of engine oil -Had it towed back"

My actions:

Told mechanic to leave the vehicle alone.
I installed new battery
I changed the spark plugs.
I replaced the thermostat
Car refused to start - only a clunk from the starter
Had it towed to reliable service centre

Result: Service shop tested the starter motor, then drained - wait for it - 15 litres oil NEW oil from the vehicle. Tested - no oil warning light. Charge for labor $300

Complained to mechanic, demanding partial refund of $800 labor charges. Very unhappy response including (if you can believe this):

"The only point I will contend (I think he means "concede") is 15 litres of oil in the sump. How it would get there I do not know. I had the oil the engine arrived with and two litres of your oil in the back of the car. I did not purchase or use any other oil at your request. It is unfortunate that you managed to park and work on your car outside a neighbors house whom has protested to the council about the operation of my business in a residential area on many occasions. You could possibly ask them how the oil got there. It was parked there for some considerable time with the key in the tail pipe also at your request and at time of your doing". "Oh and I never want any further contact with you"

My conclusion: Obviously they blackened their faces, recovered the key from the exhaust where it was hidden, unlocked the car, released the catch and raised the bonnet - all in complete silence. Then they poured about 12 litres of completely fresh new oil into the engine before closing the bonnet, re-locking the car etc. Very skilled neighbors indeed!