Sadly our history has some very dark parts

Anyone who keeps using their own cultural paradigm to judge others and expect them to conform to their way of seeing the world is perpetuating the problem.

EG: Of course Aboriginal people don't have written title deeds to their land in the form you are suggesting they should have. ...Seriously?

There are however cases whereby significant works of art have represented Aboriginal title.
EG: The Ngurrara Canvas, which was recently unfurled in home country 20 years after it was painted for a native title case in 1996.

Giant Indigenous artwork returns to Australian desert after 20 years - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

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Originally Posted by trout1105

My ancestors wandered the lands of Scandinavia at one time, Does this give me claim to these lands now? [bigwhistle]

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Perhaps the only thing you will inherit from your Scandinavian ancestors is Dupuytren's syndrome. Welcome to the club.

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Originally Posted by PhilipA

OK,
Kulumburu was run as a Catholic mission for many years and aboriginals supplied with modest housing by the mission and employed as stockmen on the working cattle station.
The WA government sent lawyers to tell the people they were being exploited by the Catholic Church. Subsequently the houses supplied by the mission were torn down and replaced by much more grandiose houses.

When I visited a few years ago there was no farming activity that I could see, youth was living on the dole. A sign in the Aboriginal owned supermarket prohibited kids of school age from the supermarket because of shoplifting, change was given in packs of cards.

We waited at the counter for work to resume at 2pm after lunch and at about 2.30 an islander woman who was the wife of the manager turned up and proceeded to have a heated argument with the staff who then dribbled in and should have resumed work at 2.00PM. We had to buy a permit for AFAIR $40 to visit the camping ground at Honeymoon Bay.

There was a sign in the office saying "pay $1500 per years in rent and maintenance will be done on houses" which indicated to me that no rent was paid.
I entered the Mission store and conversed with the volunteers who pointed out a girl who had been seen to have potential and was given a fully funded scholarship to a Catholic High School in Perth. She lasted six months before her parents demanded she return home as they missed her. She was wandering around with nothing to do.

Gumbanan at One arm Point Cape Leveque
As we were takin a rigid inflatable to the horizontal waterfall which left from Cooljaman we camped at Gumbanan retreat which is aboriginal run.
We were charged $38 per night AFAIR. The toilets were 1.5Km from the campsite and there were cold showers which had been built for an aboriginal convention some time earlier and not maintained.
We found a campsite and then found human faeces strewn about in many places around our campsite which I proceeded to bury. There was a deep sand bog adjacent to the campsite.

The aboriginal manager to his credit gave spear lessons to kids , however the lack of basic appreciation of hygiene was appalling.
It may have changed since our visit about 5 years ago but my overriding impression is that the traditional owners wanted the money but were unwilling to do anything for it. 4x4 Australia recently listed it as a top campsite so maybe it has changed.


IMHO the greatest enemy that aboriginals have is other aboriginals not the rest of the population.






Regards Philip A

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Nothing you have quoted here is any different from disadvantaged white communities. But thank you for posting. Your last comment, is true. When aboriginals gain the education, and confidence, not to be ripped off by white carpet baggers, things might change. However, it seems to me that
there is an industry , ripping off the billions of dollars going into aboriginal affairs, and I believe that gullible, or greedy aboriginal managers of some of these assets are taking advantage of this. No different from any other human, really. They have just evolved, and learned quick.

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Originally Posted by DiscoMick

Yes, you're right, it was a brief and flippant response, as I was engrossed in the tennis, so sorry about that.
What I meant was that we have a national youth problem and the participants in your scheme are examples of that. Society isn't generating the entry level jobs needed to meet the demand because many of those jobs are being automated or exported and not everyone wants to be in hospitality, retail or aged care. Trade training funding has also been slashed and companies and governments aren't creating the apprenticeships that used to exist in the past.
Your scheme is a welcome example of an attempt to break the cycle, as you say, but what we actually need is to go back a step and prevent the cycle. That's easier said than done, of course. The genie is well and truly out of the bottle and can't be put back.
In Aboriginal terms, the past has broken down and is difficult to revive. It can only work if the people involved own the process. Forcing people into a scheme designed in Canberra may not work unless the tribe wants it. This isn't surprising as its also true in wider society. How many outside schemes are being run in our local areas with limited success because the locals haven't embraced them? It's very difficult.
So, it's great that schemes such as yours have been tried and I'm sure some people did benefit. Kudos for having a go.

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Gday Mick,

Sadly for the aboriginal people , the only scheme's that seem to be put up are " white man scheme's " I don't see the so called Captain's picks and the rest of the great saviours of the indigenous people , that go into politics coming up with plans to fix these problems and stop the cycle before it starts. With the younger generation of all walks of life wanting to move away from their traditional land or home , we have to adopt systems that cover all people regardless of colour, religion or even gender these days, its just the evolution of life.

I don't have the answers , but I would rather try something than just write it off because it was thought up in a different place or by someone of a different colour. I don't think just throwing endless amounts of $$ at something and hoping it will go away is the answer either.

I would just like to see more effort from the leaders of the indigenous people coming forward and trying to make a difference. I hope I am wrong and it is happening , but from where I sit I am not seeing it. Its very easy to blame someone else for your problems, ie, governments , Lawyers , etc etc , but its leadership and direction that's needed and it needs to come from all sides not just 1.

I don't believe in dwelling on the past , sure accept it and try and improve it and certainly don't make the same mistakes , but to think that the indigenous people could go back to how life was 1000 , 10,000 20,000 yrs ago is crazy. I am led to believe the oldest culture on the planet , its a culture we should embrace and help it move forward , and that includes the people who want to live on country and those who want to become city slickers. It should be about smarter business plans if the remote communities are trying things and they are failing. When it comes to remote indigenous communities we shouldn't be having a competition about "show what place was a success , and what wasn't " , we should be finding out why 1 succeeded and what caused the other to fail. The idea is to make the community support itself and give people back some pride and dignity that they are achieving something , not just labelled as a bunch of Dole bludgers.

I don't think this will happen in my life time and prolly pipe dream stuff but I hope it does. Personally I don't see reconciliation ever happening in the current climate because I believe there are parties on both sides that don't want it to, as the gravy train is just to good in its current form.

Cheers Ean

Aboriginal leaders are constantly showing the way, but then they are constantly disrespected by paternslistic governments and their majority voters. Examples are very easy to find if you care to inform yourself.

One of the latest shameful examples:
Indigenous recognition: Turnbull Government's rejection of Uluru Statement from the heart indefensible - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Saying 'I don't have the answers', 'it probably won't change in my lifetime' and 'we need to make them' do this or that is paternalistic, disrespectful and just a cop out. ...Every single person has the ability to start with the basics, listen to Aboriginal people's perspectives with an open mind, accept that many people have different world views than your own and that is something to cherish and learn from, write a letter to your local member, the PM, don't vote for any party that doesn't respect Aboriginal people. We can all take responsibility for our own actions and words. It all helps (or hinders).

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Originally Posted by Zeros

Presuming a lack of knowledge or experience is never a good idea. ...Almost 25 years of intercultural project development experience across the continent here.

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Originally Posted by Zeros

Aboriginal leaders are constantly showing the way, but then they are constantly disrespected by paternslistic governments and their majority voters. Examples are very easy to find if you care to inform yourself.

One of the latest shameful examples:
Indigenous recognition: Turnbull Government's rejection of Uluru Statement from the heart indefensible - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Saying 'I don't have the answers', 'it probably won't change in my lifetime' and 'we need to make them' do this or that is paternalistic, disrespectful and just a cop out. ...Every single person has the ability to start with the basics, listen to Aboriginal people's perspectives with an open mind, accept that many people have different world views than your own and that is something to cherish and learn from, write a letter to your local member, the PM, don't vote for any party that doesn't respect Aboriginal people. We can all take responsibility for our own actions and words. It all helps (or hinders).

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Presuming a lack of knowledge or experience is never a good idea. - From one of your previous posts....

You need to heed some of your own advice..

Cheers Ean

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Originally Posted by Zeros

Presuming a lack of knowledge or experience is never a good idea. ...Almost 25 years of intercultural project development experience across the continent here.

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In what capacity and was your work privately funded or publicly funded ?

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Originally Posted by Ean Austral

Gday Mick,

Sadly for the aboriginal people , the only scheme's that seem to be put up are " white man scheme's " I don't see the so called Captain's picks and the rest of the great saviours of the indigenous people , that go into politics coming up with plans to fix these problems and stop the cycle before it starts. With the younger generation of all walks of life wanting to move away from their traditional land or home , we have to adopt systems that cover all people regardless of colour, religion or even gender these days, its just the evolution of life.

I don't have the answers , but I would rather try something than just write it off because it was thought up in a different place or by someone of a different colour. I don't think just throwing endless amounts of $$ at something and hoping it will go away is the answer either.



Cheers Ean

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Well written, Ean. I have always thought the starting point would be a Royal Commission into billions of dollars thrown at the aboriginal " problem ", a forensic audit going back to square one, tasked with finding out what may have worked, and why, and what didn't, and where the money went. And why aboriginal communities are not much better off now, than in the beginning, or which communities have prospered, and why. For this to work, there would have to be an amnesty given to all players, if they come to the Commission and tell all about any corruption they know about. However I feel there are too many fingers in the pie, and the pie tastes too good. The only way to quell those suspicions is to bring it all out in the open. Pigs might fly, I guess.

The money isn't 'thrown at Aboriginal people' - it's generally thrown at government departments which squander it without proper consultation or empowering people to help themselves.

id like to see a royal commission into defence and mandatory detention expenditure.

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Originally Posted by Zeros

The money isn't 'thrown at Aboriginal people' - it's generally thrown at government departments which squander it without proper consultation or empowering people to help themselves.

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I thought that was exactly my point. I'm glad you agree. How did you get " people" out of problem?