Another snatch strap death

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Originally Posted by trout1105

After reading the last couple of pages in this thread it seems that the Consensus here is that a Snatch recovery and a winch recovery have the same degree of risk making them both as equally dangerous and the only difference between the two methods are the cost of the recovery equipment. [bigwhistle]

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Do you disagree? Do you believe that a recovery using a winch is less risky, less dangerous, than using a snatch strap? (I believe this is rhetorical - I believe you have written so in a few past posts in this thread.)

Are you open to a reading an opinion that differs vastly with your opinion?

Try the link.... 4WD Recovery - 4x4 Africa

Look for this section under the heading "Winches"
"... there are some things you need to know about using winches, of which the single most important is the fact that if you do not know what you are doing, a winch is several orders of magnitude more dangerous to use than anything else and has killed and injured more people than any other method of 4×4 recovery"

I agree that rated recovery points are a good thing.

Historically, snatch straps arrived onto the market, they were rapidly adopted, accidents kept happenning with them, then, as a result of these accidents and the technical issues, there is recently a rapidly growing movement towards rated recovery points.

But, for as long as there is a generally held perception that snatching is safe enough, and that snatching is the prime form of recovery, people will die from time to time. People will still joint straps with shackles, connect to points that arent actually rated, etc.

Obviously, totally, education is the key thing. But when people first start 4wding, they are at the beginning of the learning curve, and some arent surviving long enough to get a good education.

Recovery education has been around for ages.

So, are we really heading in the right direction, to keep trying to make snatching safe? Or rather, should we steer a course towards the better solution for soft ground recoveries, which is winching. I think the latter.

[P.S. my vehicle has two front recovery points. Next time around i plan to have stronger front points than what i have. It currently has one rear tow point. That hasnt been the plan, it has just taken a long time for me to address it. Since i dont really snatch, its not a big issue. Even if things go wrong there are plenty of options].

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Originally Posted by tact

Do you disagree? Do you believe that a recovery using a winch is less risky, less dangerous, than using a snatch strap? (I believe this is rhetorical - I believe you have written so in a few past posts in this thread.)

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Yes I do believe that a winch recovery is safer than a snatch recovery But I also believe that both methods are inherently dangerous If not done correctly.
In many instances a bit of shovel work, using recovery boards or even simply lowering the tyre pressures will negate the use of either recovery methods altogether But far too many people automatically grab a snatch strap first off without even bothering to try these methods or even use them to assist the snatch or winch recovery.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tact

Do you disagree? Do you believe that a recovery using a winch is less risky, less dangerous, than using a snatch strap? (I believe this is rhetorical - I believe you have written so in a few past posts in this thread.)

Are you open to a reading an opinion that differs vastly with your opinion?

Try the link.... 4WD Recovery - 4x4 Africa

Look for this section under the heading "Winches"
"... there are some things you need to know about using winches, of which the single most important is the fact that if you do not know what you are doing, a winch is several orders of magnitude more dangerous to use than anything else and has killed and injured more people than any other method of 4×4 recovery"

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Sorry, but the info in the link is poor quality. They dont even make a proper distinction between tow and recovery points, and sure, with a quadruple line winch pull you could get a total pulling power of 20t, but the tension in the line wont be over about 5t, and these days rope is more the norm and when it breaks it supposedly pretty much just drops to the ground.

Time for a hands up. Who, of those commenting in this thread, has actually done a snatch recovery? Or a winch recovery? How about you post it up here, for comment.

I have reese hitches front and back on my defender. I just put the end of the strap into the reese hitch and put the pin through the strap. No shackles needed.

Great for pulling out Toyotas...

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Originally Posted by bob10

Time for a hands up. Who, of those commenting in this thread, has actually done a snatch recovery? Or a winch recovery? How about you post it up here, for comment.

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I've done both, numerous times. The below rules apply, no matter what the recovery involves, digging, snatching or winching.

Rule 1) Stay away from dickheads! If they're too drunk, or too stupid to have tried shovel and/or tyre pressures first, chances are they will do something stupid during the recovery that will endanger themselves and others in the vicinity.

Rule 2) Look at the situation. Now go to another angle, and look again. Now go to the other side, and repeat. You are looking at how the car got stuck, what is making it stick (clearance, loss of traction, broken mechanicals, etc) and what force (if any) will be required and in which direction.

Rule 3) If no suitable recovery points, get the shovel and air compressor out - nothing else!

Rule 4) Decide who is in charge of the recovery. Pay special attention to Rule 1)!

Rule 5) Make sure everyone involved in the recovery knows a) the plan, b) who's in charge, c) what the danger areas are.

Rule 6) Make sure no-one else wanders into the area whilst the recovery is in progress.

Rule 7) Inspect all equipment to be used in the recovery. Shovels, mat/boards, straps, cables, ropes, recovery points and joining items (shackles, safety chains, etc)

Rule 8) Don't hurry - even if the tide is coming in, haste makes waste! The moment you inject a sense of panic into things, Murphy will appear!

Rule 9) Try to mitigate any damage to the environment afterwards - fill in holes, move rocks or branches off the track, and so on.

Rule 10) After the recovery is complete, inspect your gear as you put it away. Remember, straps and cables will last a lot longer if they are clean and dry when they're stored away.

I see we are all still stuck.[bigsad]

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Originally Posted by donh54

I've done both, numerous times. The below rules apply, no matter what the recovery involves, digging, snatching or winching.

Rule 1) Stay away from dickheads! If they're too drunk, or too stupid to have tried shovel and/or tyre pressures first, chances are they will do something stupid during the recovery that will endanger themselves and others in the vicinity.

Rule 2) Look at the situation. Now go to another angle, and look again. Now go to the other side, and repeat. You are looking at how the car got stuck, what is making it stick (clearance, loss of traction, broken mechanicals, etc) and what force (if any) will be required and in which direction.

Rule 4) Decide who is in charge of the recovery. Pay special attention to Rule 1)!

Rule 5) Make sure everyone involved in the recovery knows a) the plan, b) who's in charge, c) what the danger areas are.

Rule 6) Make sure no-one else wanders into the area whilst the recovery is in progress.

Rule 7) Inspect all equipment to be used in the recovery. Shovels, mat/boards, straps, cables, ropes, recovery points and joining items (shackles, safety chains, etc)

Rule 8) Don't hurry - even if the tide is coming in, haste makes waste! The moment you inject a sense of panic into things, Murphy will appear!

Rule 9) Try to mitigate any damage to the environment - fill in holes, move rocks or branches off the track, and so on.

Rule 10) After the recovery is complete, inspect your gear as you put it away. Remember, straps and cables will last a lot longer if they are clean and dry when they're stored away.

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Thats magic!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by donh54

I've done both, numerous times. The below rules apply, no matter what the recovery involves, digging, snatching or winching.

Rule 1) Stay away from dickheads! If they're too drunk, or too stupid to have tried shovel and/or tyre pressures first, chances are they will do something stupid during the recovery that will endanger themselves and others in the vicinity.

Rule 2) Look at the situation. Now go to another angle, and look again. Now go to the other side, and repeat. You are looking at how the car got stuck, what is making it stick (clearance, loss of traction, broken mechanicals, etc) and what force (if any) will be required and in which direction.

Rule 4) Decide who is in charge of the recovery. Pay special attention to Rule 1)!

Rule 5) Make sure everyone involved in the recovery knows a) the plan, b) who's in charge, c) what the danger areas are.

Rule 6) Make sure no-one else wanders into the area whilst the recovery is in progress.

Rule 7) Inspect all equipment to be used in the recovery. Shovels, mat/boards, straps, cables, ropes, recovery points and joining items (shackles, safety chains, etc)

Rule 8) Don't hurry - even if the tide is coming in, haste makes waste! The moment you inject a sense of panic into things, Murphy will appear!

Rule 9) Try to mitigate any damage to the environment afterwards - fill in holes, move rocks or branches off the track, and so on.

Rule 10) After the recovery is complete, inspect your gear as you put it away. Remember, straps and cables will last a lot longer if they are clean and dry when they're stored away.

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What’s rule 3? [emoji56]