Holden - how long before the end?

**bee utey** · 15th April 2018, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by rammypluge

If they improved the rear seat accomodation and put a turbodiesel in it i cant help thinking it would have been sufficiently popular.

But they didn't do anything like that, instead their boffins listened to experts like Mick Marsh and kept only the RWD sedan based products.

**rammypluge** · 15th April 2018, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by bee utey

Quite. Everything a RWD "large family sedan" could do can be done better by a soft roader, mid size FWD sedan or mini van. Shortening, narrowing and raising the family car yet keeping interior room is facilitated by not having a whomping great transmission tunnel down the middle. It all started with the Austin 1800 way back in the 60's, pity the fact that the drive technology wasn't quite there yet.

If you make vehicles taller and narrower, the suspension necessarily becomes less comfortable, handling is reduced, and in many circumstances they are less safe. Compare the elk test max speed of a craptiva vs commodore.

FWD is terrible at towing.

**Mick_Marsh** · 15th April 2018, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by bee utey

Could it be that the vast percentage of Commode buyers don't give a stuff what sort of drive axles a car has?

So, the new fwd Commodore is flying off he showroom floor, is it?
From what I understand, the old Commodore is outselling the new Commodore. Heard that on the radio news last week.

**Mick_Marsh** · 15th April 2018, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by bee utey

FWD Mini or Moke, hand brake on and full lock, magic donuts.

And broken diffs.

**rammypluge** · 15th April 2018, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by BigJon

I have a 4wd 2.0l twin turbo car. What is yours?

There is only one type!

**Mick_Marsh** · 15th April 2018, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by bee utey

But they didn't do anything like that, instead their boffins listened to experts like Mick Marsh and kept only the RWD sedan based products.

So, they're still producing a RWD family sedan?
No?

They didn't listen to me, then.

It appears they listened to you and produced an unsaleable fwd buzz box. And are now facing the death of the brand.

**rammypluge** · 15th April 2018, 10:39 AM

Imagine how well placed holden would be now given the massive sales of dual cab utes if they had invested a tad more in the crewman.

**bee utey** · 15th April 2018, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by rammypluge

If you make vehicles taller and narrower, the suspension necessarily becomes less comfortable, handling is reduced, and in many circumstances they are less safe. Compare the elk test max speed of a craptiva vs commodore.

FWD is terrible at towing.

They are easier to park, which appeals to 99% of buyers waaay more than ultimate handling or imagined crash safety. Want to carry/tow more than a 6x4 load? Get a soft roader, get a van, get a twin cab ute. Want a sports car? Buy a sports car. This obsession with sports handling in a family four door clunker is an obsession of a few hard core people who can't imagine a good alternative.

**rammypluge** · 15th April 2018, 10:42 AM

Is not pretty much everything about the territory better than the everest for most buyers?

**pop058** · 15th April 2018, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by rammypluge

RWD makes a lot of sense if you want a multipurpose inexpensive vehicle. It can tow. The more the boot is loaded, the more traction it has (and needs). It has excellent fundamental dynamics (although please dont hang the engine out of the front of the car aka E series falcons). It is lighter, cheaper and more fuel efficient than its next best competitor, rear biased all wheel drive.

Yes, a territory with rear biased awd and more weight is better at towing and particularly pulling a boat up a boat ramp. So if you need that, go for that.

The falcon in particular in my view but also the commodore were optimised for australian conditions. They had gearing, aerodynamics, engine choice and tuning well suited to long distance high (ish) speed driving.

Falcons often had suspension and an underbody well suited to driving dirt and rough roads often found in australia. If you live in a rural area and dont have one, why not? Subarus are just not in the running.

Originally Posted by rammypluge

If they improved the rear seat accomodation and put a turbodiesel in it i cant help thinking it would have been sufficiently popular.

Ford and GMH just needed quite a few thousand people (with cheque books) that share your ideals. Unfortunately they couldn't find them or they don't exist. Me thinks the latter.

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