Holden - how long before the end?

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Originally Posted by Homestar

Shows you have never driven a decent modern FWD vehicle. Missus little turbo Veloster is what would only be considered a ‘warm’ hatch by today’s standards (200Hp) but it’ll rip a XR6 a new one in every respect to around 200KPH (weighs a smidge over a tonne) - it’s only after that that the XR6 will overhaul it (ask me how I know this[emoji6]), and if it’s in the hills and twisty bits will cain the same vehicle by miles. And again - that’s only half as good as some of the latest hot hatches - the I30N is a little missile (will know first hand in a month or so after I get to test drive one).

You can have your ‘drivers car’ and I’ll meet you at the top of the hill on my second coffee still with a grin ear to ear.

Time to get your backside in something decent, it will change your mind but I suspect you also believe in the old saying ‘there’s no substitute for cubes’ which went down the toilet decades ago as well. [emoji4]

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Lol!!..."No substitute for cubes",....or as some say today "No replacement for displacement",....."went down the toilet",....not for everyone, there's still lots of us that love our "cubes" & our "displacement", as mentioned by a prior poster stating that the last "inflated" Commodore sales were for V8s,....which they were, but as another poster said, and quite correctly, "not enough to save the company".
At the moment we're lucky to have the best of both, Karen drives an RS3, but I've just taken delivery of a supercharged 6.2L LSA HSV GTSR. Yep, for sure the RS3 will be quicker in most circumstances, as you have said,.."on a twisty road..." but there's still nothing like a big, lazy, powerful, torquey V8 up front,...and the sound,...can't beat it,...only IMHO of course.
Regards, Pickles.

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Originally Posted by pop058

Ford and GMH just needed quite a few thousand people (with cheque books) that share your ideals. Unfortunately they couldn't find them or they don't exist. Me thinks the latter. [biggrin]

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Originally Posted by rammypluge

Fashion. Car sales is substantially about fashion these days. How many people buy soft roaders with the idea of going on adventures they never do. How many people should sensibly buy a people mover that instead buy something less suitable. Fashion has swings and roundabouts.

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The reason ( and the playground equipment) are nearly irrelevant to the end result. They didn't develop the crewman, they could have done that, imagine if they did this, blah blah blah.

Don't get me wrong, I (like millions of others) would love for Ford & GMH to still be making cars here and I have had an X or E series Ford in some form or another since I got my license in the mid 70s until mid last year. SWMBO even has a Territory as her DD. But at the end of the day they did not make vehicles which would sell in sufficient numbers to sustain their business.

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Originally Posted by rammypluge

The kind of stuff people typically put in a 6x4 such as a tip run or garden mulch or sand or soil is not the kind of stuff people tend to put in the back of their shiny dual cabs anyway. One trip and the paint is all scratched, and you cant shovel it all out because of the ripples in the bottom of the tray. A 6x4 does the job much better, and how often do you need to combine that with a shopping run or anything else requiring parking in a small space? Not much.

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Try shopping at a Bunnings then. Loads and loads of light commercial based vehicles clogging the car park, very few sedans.

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Originally Posted by pop058

But at the end of the day they did not make vehicles which would sell in sufficient numbers to sustain their business.

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Yes, we agree here.
The Australian market is so small, and yet, we have the largest variety of vehicles to choose from. More variety than America.
That is happening in all types of manufacturing in Australia.
Bonds.
Blundstone.
Ryco
Ansell
Goodyear
Bridgestone
Sidchrome
Electrolux
Golden Circle
Malleys Whirlpool
etc., etc.

Paywalled article from the Oz, so a little cut and paste.


"The new ZB Commodore – the first import to carry the badge, following the closure of Holden’s local manufacturing operations in October last year – is tanking. After its launch in February, predicted resale values went straight off the cliff. Industry valuer RedBook has the ZB Commodore we tested here – the 3.6-litre V6 RS Liftback – retaining an estimated 18 per cent of its value as a trade-in after five years/100,000 kilometres.
That is the worst resale value of any new car on the market. Its VFII SV6 predecessor, the last home-grown Commodore, is pulling 29 per cent. A Porsche 911 Carrera retains 49 per cent. That’s about as good as it gets in the money pit that is new car depreciation.
ZB Commodore sales are running at around half those of VFII. Holden is having the worst year in its history, with overall sales in 2018 plummeting 22.8 per cent. In the major market classes – small cars, one tonner utes and SUVs – Holden has only one model, the Colorado 4x4 ute, in the top five sellers.
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In 2002, Holden was the number one brand in the country, with 21.6 per cent of the market. Its share in March was 4.8 per cent. At its current rate of decline, Holden will be overtaken by Kia, Honda and Nissan and drop out of the top 10 brands in a few months’ time.
RedBook’s dismal outlook for Commodore resale values also reflects the fact that the ZB is what’s known in the trade as an “orphan”. It’s built by Opel in Germany and sold in Europe as the Insignia; after Holden signed up to import the car, GM in mid-2017 offloaded its perpetually unprofitable Opel subsidiary to the French PSA Group, which makes Peugeot and Citroën, as part of GM boss Mary Barra’s strategy to focus on North America and China.
So Opel no longer exists in the GM empire and where the next Commodore will come from in five or six years’ time – if there is a next Commodore – is anybody’s guess."

Nocookies | The Australian

What most people ( present company excepted[smilebigeye]) don't understand is that the R&D costs to keep up with safety and emission legislations, let alone "trends", requires an economy of scale far bigger than our tiny, by world standards, market can provide to even hope to make a profit.

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Originally Posted by Pickles2

Lol!!..."No substitute for cubes",....or as some say today "No replacement for displacement",....."went down the toilet",....not for everyone, there's still lots of us that love our "cubes" & our "displacement", as mentioned by a prior poster stating that the last "inflated" Commodore sales were for V8s,....which they were, but as another poster said, and quite correctly, "not enough to save the company".
At the moment we're lucky to have the best of both, Karen drives an RS3, but I've just taken delivery of a supercharged 6.2L LSA HSV GTSR. Yep, for sure the RS3 will be quicker in most circumstances, as you have said,.."on a twisty road..." but there's still nothing like a big, lazy, powerful, torquey V8 up front,...and the sound,...can't beat it,...only IMHO of course.
Regards, Pickles.

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only milk and juice comes in 2l packages.

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Originally Posted by Eevo

only milk and juice comes in 2l packages.

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And landrovers, from series to modern day!

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Originally Posted by rammypluge

Yes, but i still reign against the term 'performance vehicle' or 'drivers car' being used for fwd and front biased awd vehicles. If someone wants to buy a drivers car, or gloat about 'their performance car', make it say a porsche boxter. Secondhand, i expect they would be in the realm of many people's budget.

Of course, the reality is that most people arent much of a driver, they dont corner near the limit of adhesion, or are aware of the differences between truly good and average, so with some marketing spin, an injection of horses and a bit more handling, you can sell them almost anything.

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Hmmm, a second Boxster with god knows how many KM on it or a new FWD hot hatch for less money.... Keep your Coxster.... [emoji6]

I'd take a rwd boxter over any fwd hot hatch any day, not surprised that holden aren't selling well. They screwed us so its payback.

Check out this Porsche Boxster.
We've taken a wrong turn
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...018/04/429.jpg