Holden - how long before the end?

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Originally Posted by johntins

Not to put to fine a point to it: Prove it. Tell me how many WRCs the cars that "spanked" them have. Tell me what ranking the Bathurst 12 Hour has internationally, and what status the teams had. You need to understand that competition has many layers. You also need to grasp just how narrow your view is. Just what is the Bathurst 12 Hour, and how is it relevant to the point in debate?

In world competition, the Evo and STi are legendary. Silly local comps don't really count. If I was asked, I would say that the greatest car ever in competition anywhere in the world would be the Ford Escort. And history would say I was correct, because it is. However, on a level playing field, ( sadly, that excludes the Bathurst 12 hour ), Lancia, Subaru and Mitsubishi hold pretty much all the titles for the last 30 years.

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Maybe you should tell the competitors that the Bathurst is a silly local comp.The Escort you talk about is a legendary vehicle because you or I could go to our local Ford dealership and buy one,the WRC Evo's/WRX's had nothing from the road going version,neither were production cars and neither were Japanese,they were holey designed and built in Britian and Germany,even the ones that ran in the silly local comp used major non standard components.I would argue that they owe a lot of their success through a lack of competition,when Lancia ran the Delta it won year after year,as did Peugeot Ford and Citroen,Subaru and Mitsubishi enjoyed early success,but to say they hold all the titles for the last 30 years is rubbish,Sebastian Loeb won some thing like seven in a row for Citroen.Like Pickles said,you are obviously a turbo four fan,there's nothing wrong with that,but you really should do some research. Pat

I had dinner on Thursday with a friend who has commuted between Coffs Harbour and Grafton every work day for 30 years. You know the winding two-lane infested with cops polishing their daily quotas.
Over the years he's had many cars, including Holdens and Fords, some V8s.
So what's he currently driving? A Ford Focus RS, because he wanted something 'fun' to drive. His wife drives a Triton and they tow a caravan.
So that's real world consumer feedback.

Holden just seems to have lost the plot. The only Holdens I see at work are Captivas doing the school run.

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Originally Posted by PAT303

Good read Access Denied Pat

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Very good read Pat.
Yeah, Peter Hanenberger was the last Holden M.D. to do it his way. A real car man, was responsible as an engineer for RTS, loved his special CV8 Monaro too!
Pickles.

Porsche were winning the Targa Tasmania for a while there, beating a 1000hp skyline.

Its interesting that when the amarok V6 landed recently they could boast four wheel disc brakes with minimum rim size 17", as the best in category. Yet the crewman had this in 2003.

Similarly, people are blasting the upcoming ranger raptor for not having a high power engine, and there again was the crewman back there with its power levels way above the current class leaders.

Holden............why?

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Originally Posted by rammypluge

Its interesting that when the amarok V6 landed recently they could boast four wheel disc brakes with minimum rim size 17", as the best in category. Yet the crewman had this in 2003.

Similarly, people are blasting the upcoming ranger raptor for not having a high power engine, and there again was the crewman back there with its power levels way above the current class leaders.

Holden............why?

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Most utes are still running leaf springs and some with drum brakes, i see the raptor is coming with a 2ltr motor which is weird considering the competition.

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Originally Posted by loanrangie

Most utes are still running leaf springs and some with drum brakes, i see the raptor is coming with a 2ltr motor which is weird considering the competition.

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2L engine?,...Yes, I can't quite work that one out either, in a reasonably large vehicle like this. I think there's a V6 version in the U.S., I would've thought that would be a better choice.
Pickles.

I...I can do mad skids with my bicycle

Btw it's a rwd...Can't do burnouts thought

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Originally Posted by rammypluge

Its interesting that when the amarok V6 landed recently they could boast four wheel disc brakes with minimum rim size 17", as the best in category. Yet the crewman had this in 2003.

Similarly, people are blasting the upcoming ranger raptor for not having a high power engine, and there again was the crewman back there with its power levels way above the current class leaders.

Holden............why?

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Because making anybody sit in the back of a crewman was later deemed a criminal act (cruelty)
And because it was the same rattling product they released in a conventional vehicle.

If parked on unlevel ground at all the doors wouldn’t close or open properly.

Yet another swing and a miss from a dying brand.

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Originally Posted by rammypluge

Its interesting that when the amarok V6 landed recently they could boast four wheel disc brakes with minimum rim size 17", as the best in category. Yet the crewman had this in 2003.

Similarly, people are blasting the upcoming ranger raptor for not having a high power engine, and there again was the crewman back there with its power levels way above the current class leaders.

Holden............why?

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Maybe you should be asking "why ............Holden" [biggrin]