Thread: Holden - how long before the end?

Originally Posted by rammypluge

Camaro ZL1 headed Down Under: Trademark, facelift open door for 485kW coupe locally

I was at HSV's new premises Walkinshaw Park last night with the HSVOC (Vic).
Massive, very impressive premises,...big investment here, & a 15 yr lease.
Got up close & personal with Sportcat, Camaro, & Silverado,...you just would not believe the amount of detail work that goes into these cars, and enquiry has been good.
ZL1?...wouldn't surprise me, but one step at a time I'd say.
Anyway, whether one appreciates HSV or not, IMHO it is very positive to see an Aussie company having a real go in very difficult circumstances.
Pickles.

Originally Posted by martnH

So my point here is nothing wrong if a country is not democratic

Easy to say that if you live in a democratic country. For as long as china remains communist their rich will continue to leave in droves, draining money, talent and culture.

Originally Posted by rammypluge

Easy to say that if you live in a democratic country. For as long as china remains communist their rich will continue to leave in droves, draining money, talent and culture.

I have to clarify this

China is not communist.
China practice capitalism and rules by nobles.

Australia is more communist than China. Or more socialist. If you want to be precise, Australia practice democratic market socialism. The fundamental elements of socialism is public healthcare, public welfare, public education and this comes with heavy tax.

To me, it is amazing to see the poor here has a strong sense of entitlement, that is the true sign of a socialist Utopia.
now regional Australia is sometimes 100% Communist (am I right?)

You may not believe this but there are far more similarities between China and USA.

Yes Chinese nobles are metropolitans just like the Australian nobles or American nobles. They live where they want, they don't pay tax and their money flows globally.

I went to Emerald once...I like this town

But was shocked to hear the percentage of people on welfare.

Now it is what I mean socialist Utopia. If not communist utopia where you can choose to work or not but still enjoy a relatively comfortable life.

Cheers
Martin

Forget to mention public housing is also part of socialism.

Yes it is very communist or socialist to ask for housing affordability. It is under the assumption that the government or the society should take care of every aspect of your life, including your job, education, housing ,healthcare and retirement.
All these are carefully analysed by my hero, F.A Hayek.

So who is the communist now?


There is a reason behind why GM, Ford or Toyota left Australia and Holden died. When these companies realize they can simply hold the employment of their employees hostage and ask for handouts/ random in the form of government subsidy. At that point, they will lose all incentives to improve production efficiency.

Just my opinion.
Cheers
Martin

hang on

the sydney morning herald ran an article the other week that pointed out the figures that pretty much prove beyond all doubt the the vast majority in this country subsidise the top 10% by a massive amount and it's getting bigger every year.

inequality in this country is worsening at an egreious rate as we more closely emulate the US of A. so no wonder the very bottom few percent are screaming IMHO

i know you can manipulate figures to show whatever you want but there are so many groups now coming to the same conclusion that many are ringing alarm bells at the movement of wealth from the middle classes to the elites. And the elites don't spend the way the middle and lower classes do so there are fundamental shifts in the way the economy works.

GM in Korea is about to fall in a heap and Holden in AU wont be far behind them IMHO

with deals like the TPP giving soverign rights to corporations who knows how the hell it will end up.

Canadian government is being held to ransom by over 20 law suits now according to the press.

certainly going to be interesting....

Originally Posted by martnH

I have to clarify this
To me, it is amazing to see the poor here has a strong sense of entitlement, that is the true sign of a socialist Utopia.
now regional Australia is sometimes 100% Communist (am I right?)

Originally Posted by incisor

hang on

the sydney morning herald ran an article the other week that pointed out the figures that pretty much prove beyond all doubt the the vast majority in this country subsidise the top 10% by a massive amount and it's getting bigger every year.

inequality in this country is worsening at an egreious rate as we more closely emulate the US of A. so no wonder the very bottom few percent are screaming IMHO

i know you can manipulate figures to show whatever you want but there are so many groups now coming to the same conclusion that many are ringing alarm bells at the movement of wealth from the middle classes to the elites. And the elites don't spend the way the middle and lower classes do so there are fundamental shifts in the way the economy works.

GM in Korea is about to fall in a heap and Holden in AU wont be far behind them IMHO

with deals like the TPP giving soverign rights to corporations who knows how the hell it will end up.

Canadian government is being held to ransom by over 20 law suits now according to the press.

certainly going to be interesting....

The poor in USA and China for example, don't believe they have any rights or entitlements. They will stay quit and hidden under the rag. Nobody will care about them. That's the savage nature of capitalism. Nobody want to talk about inequality in these countries.

8n these counties, nobody want to end up homeless or poor and it is the fear of property that drives people everyday, to work overtime without complaints and to pump out as many products as they can.

Discussing inequality as an important subject has an underlying assumption of social solidarity or union and that is beautiful.

I did some inequality research years ago. Obviously inequality exists in every system and it is the perspective of the observer that determine if its acceptable or not.
Crying baby gets the milk. But what is good amount of inequality is hard to determine. At the end of the day, you will want to drive a better car than your next door neighbor

There are vertical inequality and horizontal inequality. If you look into these issues, you will soon find double standard as common practice.

Yes you are right. The elites's money has no boarderlines, they benefit from off shore tax havens. Even the Queen has one.

Originally Posted by martnH

I went to Emerald once...I like this town

But was shocked to hear the percentage of people on welfare.

Now it is what I mean socialist Utopia. If not communist utopia where you can choose to work or not but still enjoy a relatively comfortable life.

Cheers
Martin

I agree that rural australia is a screwed up place compared to the cities, or should i say far less developed - including much that comes with less developed countries, including mafia like behaviour, but its hard to draw relevence to this and the shrinking of manufacturing in Australia including holden.

Overall china is no where near as good a place to live as australia, or america, and we dont need ****ty countries making messes of or for less ****ty countries.

Hong Kong should have been able to remain independent.