Holden - how long before the end?

**Pickles2** · 23rd March 2018, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by Mick_Marsh

It did.

"Ït Did"?.....Yes, in "microscopic" numbers, with no support from GM whatsoever. Friends of mine in the U.S. said they virually never saw the SS in a showroom,..like I said, NO support from GM Detroit who were too busy protecting their own product.
Pickles.

**Pickles2** · 23rd March 2018, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Homestar

Geez, the VB, VH and VN are a snap to work on....

Citroens.... yikes!

I stopped buying them after the VT. Had an HQ, HJ, HX, VB, VH, VN, VP and VT. And a Torana. The VN was the best one I owned IMO - only issue in 350,000KM was the fuel pump dying once. After a whack on the fuel tank I still got home ok and I bunged a new one in it.

The VE I had as a work car for 4 years was diabolical - 3 times on a tilt tray and once in limp mode back to the dealers. Faulty wiring loom (a weeks repair) and 2 ECU’s.

Had 200,000KM on it when it went back after it’s lease - it was completely buggered then - suspension was toast, engine guzzled oil (was serviced exactly to OEM recommendations) and trans had no idea what gear it needed to be in and made horrid banging noises when pushed hard so I doubt that lasted much longer.

And I drive it exactly the same as my own cars and how I drive the VN, so it isn’t driver abuse just because it was a company car.

I feel sorry for the poor sod that bought that one at auction...

That’s my point - not all the other stuff, which I’m sure is a factor, but the biggest thing they’ve stuffed is how they make cars - either very bad ones or ones the market isn’t interested in (or both).

Having been a Holden man all my life, I find it sad the way the marque is going - I’m not just ragging on them because I’m a ford man or anything, just that I think they’ve kicked a huge own goal which could cost them everything.

I agree with all of that,..the brown stuff really started to hit the fan after VZ, and yes it is sad, VERY sad, but like I said, look to the "boffins" in Detroit, as they are the ones that sent Holden on its downward path.
Pickles.

**Eevo** · 23rd March 2018, 11:29 AM

when did holden get bought out by GM?

**Classic88** · 23rd March 2018, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by Eevo

when did holden get bought out by GM?

1931.

**Homestar** · 23rd March 2018, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by DiscoMick

Interesting comments.

The other factor is economies of scale in a global marketplace of multinational companies. Australia is just too small a market to justify its own vehicles.
You have to sell worldwide to make the investment justifiable. If GM had sold the Commodore in the USA and Europe it could have been viable, but instead GM protected its own vehicles and kept the Commodore out, so the numbers just weren't there. Same goes for Ford and, to a lesser extent, Toyota.

Toyota was viable until Holden and Ford shut up shop - the only reason Toyota closed was because the component manufacturers couldn’t stay competitive with only one player and it’s too expensive to bring stuff in from OS to support the factory. Toyota had a large export market and would have continued on had it not been for the other 2.

**Eevo** · 23rd March 2018, 11:48 AM

an impossible question to answer.
how much did aust wages have to play in the downfall?

**loanrangie** · 23rd March 2018, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by Eevo

an impossible question to answer.
how much did aust wages have to play in the downfall?

They would have had to play a part .

**trog** · 23rd March 2018, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by Eevo

an impossible question to answer.
how much did aust wages have to play in the downfall?

Wasn’t there a post a while back negating wages as a major contributor to the downfall compared to better tax breaks and government subsidies offered elsewhere. I think the comparison was with the manufacturers in Germany

**Homestar** · 23rd March 2018, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by Eevo

an impossible question to answer.
how much did aust wages have to play in the downfall?

Bugger all - it was a tiny percentage of costs. As mentioned by others, the wind back of subsidies hurt them the most - almost all manufacturers worldwide rely on their governments for support.

**pauloarg** · 23rd March 2018, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by Pickles2

When I got my license I was neither a Holden, nor A Ford Man, but I did like V8s,..still do, so my first car was a Ford, actually a '48 Ford Mercury V8, had a couple of them, also a '51 Twin Spinner,...but basically on a meagre bank teller's wage, I couldn't afford to run them, so I bought my first Holden a '59 FC Special, then a succession of other makes & models which I won't bore you with.
In the 60s got involved with motorsport, Brock, the Holden Dealer Team etc, and then bought my first "Real" Holden, an A9X around 1984, then a VK Group A in 1986,...at which time I did also look at an XD 5.8 Falcon ESP, but it handled like a barge so I left it alone, but it showed that I wasn't a dedicated "Holden" person,...any V8 was a consideration.
Since then, I've had a succession of V8s, mostly Holdens, and I've just bought the last of the last, an HSV GTSR, not everyone's cup of tea, but it suits me.
So I do have an affinity with Holden, & I'm sad they're not manufacturing in Aussie any more. There are many reasons for that, but this is not the place to discuss many of them.
Holden has never been a truly "Aussie" company, they have always had to answer to Detroit, but for a long time, only to some extent. I believe that Holden always tried to produce a good vehicle, and they did, as evidenced by the number of early model Holdens, Kingswoods, Utes etc etc, and of course the Commodore, which will be sadly missed by many.
I don't believe that "Holden" treated the Aussie buyer with contempt, no it was not Holden, BUT "someone" did, and that someone was GM Detroit.
The last Chairman & M.D. of Holden that really did have a real go at striving to let Holden do its own thing, was Peter Hanenberger who did the job from 1999-2003. He was successful in getting the CV8 Monaro into production, and He also succeeded in getting exports going to Asia, but, and this is the crux of the matter, not to the U.S.A, or to any other markets. GM Detroit would not support the Monaro, would not support the Commodore (Chev SS), nor would they support the Caprice/Statesman police car project,......and without exports Holden was doomed.
And after Hanenberger, all of his successors and Holden itself, became increasingly under the control of Detroit.
I think Holden was a phenomenal Aussie "institution" in its day, and I do not believe it treated the Aussie market with contempt,....GM Detroit certainly did.
Just my two bobs worth. Pickles.

Hello Pickles, I agree with you related to your comments on Peter Hannenberger and all the other GM Puppets that followed after him coming from mainly North America. Might I add though, Peter Hannenberger did work for Holden Engineering - back in the 60s or maybe 70s and hence his passion for the Holden brand. But with all the other GM Puppets after that, it always felt that there was a hidden agenda on how Holden was being handled and hence my call on "Puppets".

It's such a shame that the auto industry ended the way it did. Working in the automotive engineering industry really did open my eye on the passion commitment the ex engineers/staff gave to the whole program. Working on and seeing the end product post launch really did make me appreciate working for the industry. I'm sure other ex employees will share the same thought.

Now I'm in the Super/finance industry and working in a different industry definitely makes me appreciate more of the good times working in the automotive engineering department of Holden.

Cheers

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