Thread: The Bathurst 1000 2018.

Originally Posted by Redback

I'm obviously not up on the rules regarding Supercars, so can someone explain why the Commodore can still be in the series given the 2018 on model doesn't have a V8 option!!!

Because nothing about the Commodore Supercar has anything to do with an actual production car anymore except the name. It's actually more Ford than Holden anyway - has been for years and set to get further away again next year when they go to a control chassis. Ford diff, Ford suspension. It's one of the reasons I don't watch it much any more - the vehicles are all pretty much identical now with some different body panels and engines. Next year they will all be identical in every way apart from some body panels and engine, so pretty much 1 manufacturer - no one brand to barrack for any more - you have to support a driver really now as the cars have zero to do with anything remotely to do with an OEM and in particular anything Australian. No factory teams anymore either and I could be wrong but I think there are only about 9 teams now and only 20 cars entered and contracted for next years competition but not sure on what actual numbers will show on the grid.

Edit - looks like there are currently 25 cars in the championship this year.

Should get rid of the body panels and make it an open wheeled class of racing IMO - would be more interesting when they rub tyres then...

I'll still be watching the whole race on Sunday though - that won't change - it still is an amazing track and race, unique in the world.

Originally Posted by Redback

I'm obviously not up on the rules regarding Supercars, so can someone explain why the Commodore can still be in the series given the 2018 on model doesn't have a V8 option!!!

Just the catagory rules. Same with all of the vehicles, none of them run or ran with a motor that was available in them and they haven't for a long time. This all initially happened because the ford V8 didn't have a strong enough block, so ran an alternative 5.0V8 from their racing parts catalogue. Holden was then allowed the same when they swapped out for their equivalent, but this was a long long time ago. The thing about the Commodore, is that its the only vehicle represented on the grid that you can actually buy in Australia.

I agree with the spirit of what Homestar has written in that all of the cars are the same, even down to aerodynamic end results, but I disagree with it also. There are no ford parts in any of the cars except the fords. The suspension is all control, its no more ford than it is landrover. the diffs are also Albins transaxles, they havent been Ford 9" for a long time also. The chassis has also been control for a long time with outriggers to suit the bodywork, and the bodywork is produced by the teams (they work together), not the manufacturer. Also Holden has a factory team which has moved this year from Walkinshaw to 888... well, actually Homestar is right, they are not a factory team, they are a factory supported team.

That said, I do think that if HSV can do all of these massive conversions, they should make a V8 version of the AWD Commodore.

Thanks - I'll stand corrected on the diffs, that's how long it's been since I've really paid attention. Unless it has changed also, the control suspension was based on the ford design was it not?

I doubt there are almost any actual Ford or Holden parts in any of the vehicles - everything is custom made either by the teams or race suppliers. I also challenge you can buy a Commodore that in any way resembles what is on the race track - it is all lip service which is my whole point. The current 'Commodore' isn't even rear wheel drive - and anyway, it's sales are in the gutter - a bit below it actually - I haven't actually seen one being driven on the road yet.

Holdens run to non existence is a whole other story anyway - with sales now lower per month than they were in 1948, they won't be around for much longer I don't think. Less than 4.5% market share now and racing rapidly to a point where they won' even be in the top 10 - not sure why they still exist in the Supercars either - a Toyota, Mazda, Mitsubishi or Hyundai would be much more Representative of Australians taste in vehicles now being the top 4 sellers in the Country by a decent margin. Fords sales aren't far off Holdens now and would be in the toilet even worse if it wasn't for the Ranger - take the 3,500 of those out of the 5,000 vehicles Ford sold last month and they'd close the doors too so both the Major Marques represented have almost zero to do with how the average Aussie looks at vehicles these days.

I love car and bike racing in general and I used to love this series, but it just has nothing going for it enough that I can hang onto any more.

Want popular - get them to stick a Ranger body on the Ford version and a Hilux body on the Holden version - I'd watch that, even if the underlying race tech was identical - at least I'd see cars on the track that look like what is on the street now - who buys large sedans now FFS? ..

Wowsers - here's something interesting. Mazda are even more on the nose than Holden and Ford at the moment as far as year on year sales go, but they still sell 25% more vehicles a month than the red and the blue at the moment, but apart from that, you can see how the Aussie population are ditching both Marques as they are both on the nose. Holden for being Holden and Ford for being such arseholes with their after sales service - it's starting to catch up on them and the Ranger is the only thing holding their head above water in Australia.

My point is that Supercars need to reevaluate which Marques are represented in their competition if they want to stay relevant to the average Aussie, which is what they were all about in the first place. Families these days just aren't 'Holden' or 'Ford' families - haven't been for a long time. I admit it would be hard to bring something back that is uniquely Australian like the Supercars used to be, but I'd like to see them try something different. Same old, same old just isn't working IMO.



Sept sales.JPG

I cant help but agree, I think the writing may be on the wall for Holden also.

Back in the day, if I recall correctly, I think Holden were running a Macpherson strut front end and a panhard rear end. Ford were running Double wishbone front and watts linkage rear. I was thinking when V8 Supercars was developed they adopted the watts linkage and wishbone setup across both vehicles, which was the same basic design as the Ford setup but it was a full adjustable race setup. Then when the control chassis was introduced with car of the future it went to a control independent rear end and a wishbone front end. Although the design concept of watts/wishbone was being used by Ford, this isn't at all the Ford setup.

Superutes! They should drop the Colarado on the Holden chassis

maybe its time for an annual across Australia rally, one year north south, next year east west. Maximin field of 100, self supporting with the route taken with minimum formed roads, open to all makes under 4.5 tonne. Motor sports are great,
cheers
blaze

Originally Posted by Homestar

Wowsers - here's something interesting. Mazda are even more on the nose than Holden and Ford

yep, easy to see why when you take a mazda 3 for a drive and sit in the back seat...

the Defender is quieter in the back than the Mazda and i'm not exaggerating

but after sales service at the local Mazda / Hyundai dealer is far and away the best after sales service i have ever experienced bar none and we bought the vehicle second hand. fantastic service and nothing seems to be too much trouble.

as for the taxis on Foxtel, sorry it does little for me, i much prefer the race earlier in the year...

Originally Posted by incisor

as for the taxis on Foxtel

Thats where they lost me. I do follow it, but I'm certainly not putting any money into Ruperts pocket. If the sponsors want value, they need to go back to free to air TV.