View Poll Results: Should Australia be considering nuclear power as a reliable power source.

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  • Yes

    40 62.50%
  • No

    24 37.50%
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Thread: Nuclear

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoMick View Post
    Re. you comment about renewable subsidies, keep in mind that all coal fired power stations in Australia were originally built by state government energy agencies, so they were 100% funded by taxpayers. Renewable subsidies only cover part of the cost - a third in my son's case. So coal was totally subsidised, but renewables are only partly subsidised.
    Not quite, Qld govt builds a power station, said station sells power nationally, makes a profit, gives dividend to govt that made the INVESTMENT, thats not a subsidy.

    So for equal comparison there should be no renewable subsidies, rather, get a loan or pay with your own cash, like i did. And getting 52c buy in tarrif, which is the most stupid thing ever. But thank you all the renters and pensioners for subsiding my installation
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  2. #92
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    To answer the poll, dont know, but rather than put my head in the sand, get the CSIRO to do a review of technology so informed decisions can be made
    By all means get a Defender. If you get a good one, you'll be happy. If you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher.
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  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eevo View Post
    wages are too high to make it profitable
    Australia has always had relatively high wages. We were still competitive because of our abundance of cheap coal fired electricity!
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  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eevo View Post
    way off.

    wit 10kw of solar and 12 kwh of batteries, i wouldnt break even.
    That makes you a far higher than average electricity user. I said 6kW because that should cover most people.
    Have a look at this:

    How Much Solar Power Do I Need? - Solar Panel System Sizing Advice
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  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyG View Post
    Not quite, Qld govt builds a power station, said station sells power nationally, makes a profit, gives dividend to govt that made the INVESTMENT, thats not a subsidy.

    So for equal comparison there should be no renewable subsidies, rather, get a loan or pay with your own cash, like i did. And getting 52c buy in tarrif, which is the most stupid thing ever. But thank you all the renters and pensioners for subsiding my installation
    Still a 100% taxpayer construction subsidy.
    2009 Defender 110 2.4. ARB bulbar, Ironman winch, Safari snorkel, Steinbauer chip, AP HD clutch, Lightforce spots, larger tank, Off Road Systems drawer, Traxide 160 controller, Tekonsha brakes, Mulgo seat runners, Uniden UHF, Nuggetstuff seat corners, breathers, Polaris GPS.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by dero View Post
    Those in favor of nuclear power have a tendency to ignore the huge problem of waste.
    waste isnt the probem it used to be,

    there are reactors they can run off waste now days. we could actually make good money from taking other countries waste and "burning" it to make cheap elec.
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  7. #97
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    Fyi: Germany, a major coal consumer,*announced in January*that it would shut down all 84 of its coal-fired power plants over the next 19 years (the Germans are already committed to phasing out nuclear power by 2022 — 12 of the country’s 19 nuclear plants have been closed so far). Renewables now account for 41% of Germany’s electric generation.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsperka View Post
    Fyi: Germany, a major coal consumer,*announced in January*that it would shut down all 84 of its coal-fired power plants over the next 19 years (the Germans are already committed to phasing out nuclear power by 2022 — 12 of the country’s 19 nuclear plants have been closed so far). Renewables now account for 41% of Germany’s electric generation.
    Good point. It should also be noted that Germany now has the second most most expensive electricity in Europe (Denmark is first, and also has a high penetration of intermittent renewables). Germany has been able to push intermittent renewables up and up because it is linked by a grid to other countries, including France that produces 70% of its electricity from nuclear power. My source for these data are the official EU data at : Electricity price statistics - Statistics Explained. German price to household consumers is 0.30 Euro/kWh. France, incidentally, is 0.18 Euro/kWh.

    I refer to 'intermittent' renewables to distinguish between renewables with no inbuilt storage (such as solar PV and wind - which are hence intermittent and need some sort of storage or backup genset) and hydro-electricity which generally has significant storage capacity and hence is more reliably despatchable.

    To go back to my initial point in my original post - it is a strange state of affairs that anyone would object to at least considering nuclear as part of the mix of electricity supply that is needed if we want to decrease CO2 emissions from the electricity generation sector. In fact if, as many of us hope, we see electric vehicles become an important part of the effort to decrease CO2 emissions from the transport sector, the need to find a mix of low CO2 emission electricity sources becomes more important. I'm aware that there are some commentators who argue that we'll be able to use the batteries in electric cars as part of a solution to the storage problem of intermittent renewables. However I have yet to see a detailed analysis of how this might actually work. If anyone knows of such an analysis I would be very interested tosee the link.

    Interesting discussion!

    Michael
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  9. #99
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    from the last time I did some numbers on this...

    you would want at least 10KWh worth of storage and about 7kw worth of generation to run an average size house that was well planned and laid out.

    while the minimum numbers are nearer to 6 and 4 for an average DINKS setup thats the absolute minimum I used from another source with no practicable reserve or buffer. it was also laid out (as near as I remember) accounting for people who were practicabley not home during the day had gas for all cooking. effectively half the living power costs were being picked up while the couple were at work with things like the washing machine running only when storage was over a certain percentage and power generation was in excess. the cost of the house and gear was more than $120K over a stockish house

    There's a budget balance point that needs to be reached when you go off grid, thousands of dollars spent on insulation and power conservation things reduce the cost of your power input requirements but at some point the extra cost of the minimal gains is easily under cut by putting the money into a bigger generation and storage system.

    Pro's and cons each way.

    ITs the same with nuclear stuff a larger understressed plant will run cleaner for longer and with lower issues as well as having the ability to soak up the ever growing power demands but with a larger start up and end of life (if it hits end of life) shutdown cost. It comes with fixed data for infastructure you always can get X amount of power and no more so your transmission grid is a one way affair, cheap and easy (relatively) to design and build.

    if you want to switch to renewables (excluding hydro to a large extent) you have a grid design that requires multiple smaller output production sites that now has to be able to deal with varying power outputs from each site. one day all the power could be coming from the NE corner, the next the SE and on some days everything will be running at max output and will be wanting some loading to keep it under control and on the others load will be screaming for generation to meet demand. The benefit is that the grid while expensive now has cheaper startup and shutdown costs for the generation.

    Personally.

    I think the scaremongers are going to win this one and the most likely way of the future is going to be solar with super capacitors with a heavy distribution of micro wind generation.

    Those near the coast will get tidal pumps to assist and lifestyles will change to suit the available basegen from the solar and tidal arrays
    Dave

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  10. #100
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    Agree with most of that.
    Solar hot water can cut a significant amount from electricity consumption, maybe a quarter.
    The advice I've had is 6-7kW of both battery and storage plus solar hot water should meet our needs. If we went off the grid I'd increase that.
    I have estimates that all of that could be done for under $20k.
    We have already installed solar hot water for about $4k.
    Our son's 6.5 kW of solar panels installed this month cost about $6k after the subsidy.
    So I think these are realistic figures, particularly as the cost of lithium batteries falls.
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