View Poll Results: Should Australia be considering nuclear power as a reliable power source.

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  • Yes

    31 62.00%
  • No

    19 38.00%
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Thread: Nuclear

  1. #11
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    Definitely
    Roger



    "Experience is something you don't get unless you have a go."

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homestar View Post
    Yes. You should have made a Poll with the thread - do you want me to add one?
    Yes please.
    Roger



    "Experience is something you don't get unless you have a go."

  3. #13
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    Hi

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoClax View Post
    We have the most stable conditions on Earth for nuclear reactors. Political, geological, environmental, economic, etc, etc. And the raw material is abundant and easily mined. And we have large areas in which to store the 'waste' until it can be reprocessed and much more energy extracted in the future. Yes, we absolutely should be using modern, efficient, safe nuclear technology here in Aus. Completely bonkers that the scare mongering surrounding issues seen elsewhere have stopped this clean energy source locally. Boggles my mind.
    > we have large areas in which to store the 'waste'
    I hope your not thinking of the Nullarbor - it's porous limestone with caves.
    Storing it for several hundred or more years. Will a metal sign do which will last that long? Oh and some MS Word docs stored in Canberra for each generation to read so they remember.

    > reprocessed and much more energy extracted in the future.
    Reprocessing won't be done. It's too extensive and you don't get anything back for free the second time around.

    > modern, efficient, safe
    Renewables are also modern and efficient. You can't disagree that they are much safer than nuclear.
    You would have to agree with me that solar is very safe. We might disagree if I said nuclear is unsafe.
    Because of the complexity of nuclear it will always be problematic.

    It's also a question of risk vs consequences. Even if you make a low risk one (pebble bed?) the consequences of failure are still huge.

    > scare mongering surrounding issues seen elsewhere
    I'll ignore military ones and just include power reactors. I'll ignore the dozens of accidents prior to the 1980's when we had safe, modern ones. So we are left with the failures, accidents and several deaths at Athens Alabama, Plymouth Massachusetts, Chernobyl, Delta Pennsylvania, Nine Mile New York, Lusby Maryland, Waterford Connecticut, Crystal River Florida, Ibaraki Japan, Oak Harbour Ohio, Paks Hungary, Mihama Japan, Forsmark Sweden, Fukushima Japan, Marcoule France.
    So don't worry if we have a few here. Us Aussies are much better at design, engineering, building and maintenance :-)
    Refs:
    Nuclear and radiation accidents and incidents - Wikipedia
    Lists of nuclear disasters and radioactive incidents - Wikipedia
    Brief History of Nuclear Accidents Worldwide from Union of Concerned Scientists
    Nuclear power plant accidents: listed, visualised and ranked since 1952 from The Guardian

    > clean energy source
    Well the waste isn't black coloured like coal but that's the best you can say about it.

    I do like the physics behind it all. But the nuclear industry has had now 60 years, i.e. since the late 50's when commercial power stations were first commissioned, and they still haven't a single power reactor that has produced power for its designed lifetime and been fully decommissioned as an example of what can be achieved. Sixty years later and combinations of human error and mechanical failure still dog the industry. Coupled with a highly non-transparent set of subsidies to the industry.

    It didn't deliver all that it promised. It looked promising through to the 70's but by the 80's and 90's the cracks started to appear in its safety and cost. Time to ditch it. Move on.

    Mike
    Fuji White MY13 D4 SDV6 SE 3.0 Litre, 8 spd auto.

  4. #14
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    Plenty to think about there, Mike. Thanks for the post. I'll be doing some more research before responding. But a couple of points off the top of my head...
    The concerns I have with many (all?) of the renewables is that they just move the problem elsewhere and hide the nasties (often to the third world) while we pat ourselves on the back for being green. Solar cells are an ecological disaster given the way they are actually made in the real world. The tech exists to do it much better/cleaner but that's really expensive and we all want our cheap panels... The mining and refinement of precious metals, etc for batteries is even worse. Wind turbines have their own issues (and so many of ours are older gen cheaper hand-me-downs from developed countries upgrading), as do pretty much all forms of alternative energy. Hydro is considered one of the cleanest and that involves drowning large areas and altering water flows, etc. There is no truly "green" energy source that is commercially viable at this time. I'm absolutely not saying we should abandon 'clean' energy, just be a bit more realistic about the true impact and whole of life cycle. A number of those nuclear disasters you refer to were caused by environmental upheavals that we just don't get here (tsunami, for example) and/or the plants were quite old and outdated and considered unsafe by current thinking. I do believe there is a place for nuclear in Australia, and moreso than anywhere else. To my mind the experiences of old plants in unstable areas doesn't necessarily relate to a high risk profile here for a well planned and executed installation. Their energy density is extraordinary and possibly unsurpassed. I don't think we should just write that off. I'm far from an expert and always interested to learn from others
    Last edited by DiscoClax; 13th June 2019 at 08:53 AM. Reason: Miss-spelled "tsunami"
    DiscoClax
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  5. #15
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    Just going to add,
    I watched the Chernobyl HBO mini series on a streaming service.
    Would recommend.
    -Mitch
    'El Burro' 2012 Defender 90.

  6. #16
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    My Brother In Law, has a PHD in Nuclear Physics,...he has no problems with Nuclear.
    So, I'm a definite "Yes".
    Pickles.

  7. #17
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    The whole world is going RE-NEWABLE and we are still dicking around with COAL and now you want NUCLEAR

    I can just see us driving around in Nuke powered Land Rovers with our lead lined clothing looking like the Man from Snowy River, no need for headlights, the car lights the way, don't worry about the waste, we'll just fill the hole created by Adani when they close that down, I'm sure QLD won't mind, it should create jobs for all the 2 headed children in the future
    Last edited by Redback; 13th June 2019 at 03:48 PM.
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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by laney View Post
    should Australia be considering nuclear power as a reliable power source.
    Yes

  9. #19
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    Ormeau, Gold Coast,Queensland
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    NO

    for no other reason than the timing is now way out of whack.

    we should have seriously considered it 30yrs ago before the onset of alternatives or renewables.

    every town in Australia can now , relatively cheaply , set up their own independent power generation system.....(again)

    the days of big centralised power generation facilities are over.

    I grew up in the bush and every town had its own power station or generator shed...no national grid. No power monopoly companies except in the cities.

    because of renewables per se, it appears to be reverting back to the old system where the power generator was owned by the local town council and the users only paid what it cost.

    it wasn't a profit making business for the councils but a part of the council's job to provide power to the town.

    modern renewable/alternative systems now allow the local councils to control electricity production and costings independent of the big monopolies.

    if we were to plan for and build a suitable nuclear power facility in Australia , by the time all feasability studies and costings were done and accepted and the project started , it would be 25+ years into the future before it would even be commissioned.....I just don't think there is an opportunity left now for serious consideration , with the alternative options running along side it.

  10. #20
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    I'm guessing almost everyone that says "Yes" is a baby boomer ( The generation that has happily sold off every bit of public infrastructure there parents/grandparents built to the enormous detriment of the kids/grandkids )........

    It is a definite "no/never" from me. Forget the left over waste and costs of building one. There is no way I'm saddling my grandkids with the mind blowing costs of decommissioning one ( or several ) of those dinosaurs.

    You'd have to be absolutely insane. Build another brown coal power station or two before nuclear. At least if we shut down the brown coal powerstations.... All we will end up with is big empty buildings next to a hole in the ground.

    seeya
    Shane L.
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