The end of cruise ships, as we know them?

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Originally Posted by 350RRC

Toothless cougars?

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Does that make them 'Couthless'?

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Originally Posted by PerthDisco

Yes but they are no different to the 1000s of international ships such as iron ore bulk carriers, gas, oil, coal and grain ships getting goods to market. These to a large degree are modern ships (such ships are scrapped at often less than 20 years). To be fair they employ a crew of many people of all nationalities and skill sets. For some crew the accomodation and “ poor pay and conditions” may be a lot better than those of their countrymen! (Think the poor immigrant Covid shipyard workers in Singapore). A life on the ocean. Methinks also you don’t want any old bunny looking after your important expensive ship. These ships are owned by international companies of good and bad reputation who must compete for the competent trained crew. The markets are high risk and highly competitive.

So you need to separate “tax effectiveness” with “quality” as all ships cannot be insured unless built to an internationally recognised Class i.e Lloyd’s, BV, DNV etc. A ship cannot touch an Australian dock without such accreditation and many commercial charterers such as Rio or BHP will specify a ship of, say, no more than 10 years old in the charter request.

Now that’s not to say the local authorities may specify things a little differently for ships permanently operating in Australia with Australians but that’s a matter of taste largely as body sizes are different and a case of what you used to having and not having.

40 years ago there was some real rubbish on the water if you remember the Kirki on the West Coast whose bow fell off in bad weather. Those days are gone for international ships.

(I would separate sheep ships out of this as these look terrible places to work from what I’ve seen)

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A mate of mine is an Engineer on a coastal ship around Australia, and we've had many discussions about conditions , and pay, for Officers and crews on these ships. Some Companies are better than others, but here we are talking about cruise ships, operating under flags of convenience, with perhaps thousands of low payed, low skilled workers, working mainly in the hotel industries. Workers in the seamanship and engineering departments for example , are higher skilled , in line with any merchant vessel crew . Speaking of Lloyds,[ and as you sound as though you have been involved in the industry I'm not going to try to tell you how to suck eggs] I'm sure you are aware they are not an insurance company.but a marketplace where insurance buyers and sellers come together. And now days are involved in much more than ocean cargo insurance . An interesting aside is how maritime insurance has changed from the days of port to port insurance, with the advent of containers it is now warehouse to warehouse , taking into account the container may travel by train, truck , or other. Slightly off topic I guess but covered perils of all risk policies include;[ the perils of the sea link is interesting]

Covered Perils

. All-risk policies cover losses caused by any perils that aren't specifically excluded. Named perils policies cover losses caused by the perils listed. Covered named perils typically include fire, assailing thieves, jettisons, barratry, and "

perils of the sea.

" Barratry means criminal acts committed by the ship's captain or crew that injure the shipowner. Perils of the sea are events that commonly occur on the water such as storms, winds, waves, sinking, capsizing, and collision with other objects.

The point of my post is that the operation of Cruise ships around the World, not just in Australia, must face some drastic changes. The link to the investigation of the industry in the US, as regards the rights of the passengers under the law, is a must read for any one considering going on a cruise. It is important to know your rights if you have been assaulted , raped, robbed, or heaven forbid, murdered. The article relates to the US law, I'm not absolutely sure how we stand under Australian law at sea on a cruise, in regards as to who initially investigates the offence, whether it is the ships crew, or Australian police , and the issues that may result from that. Cruising can be a wonderful experience, until it hits the fan. I think Australians have been naive in our approach to cruising thus far.

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Originally Posted by PerthDisco

I recommend supporting Australian owned boutique cruise company True North. 36 pax about the right amount.

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I can definitely recommend visiting the places they go to, having spent time on a patrol boat along the West coast. But the cost makes them a once in a lifetime experience , money better spent on a road trip to the Kimberley's or beyond, I believe. But the places True North can take you are breath taking.

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Originally Posted by bob10

I can definitely recommend visiting the places they go to, having spent time on a patrol boat along the West coast. But the cost makes them a once in a lifetime experience , money better spent on a road trip to the Kimberley's or beyond, I believe. But the places True North can take you are breath taking.

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The area can also be explored in a small boat if you are adventurous/experienced enough and it wont cost anywhere near as much as a trip on the "True North"[thumbsupbig]
I have done many "Cruises" in the Kimberly and the Gulf country of 10-14 day durations fishing and camping on the boat and I highly recommend anyone who is a competent seafarer to try this, Preparation is the key in this remote area[thumbsupbig]

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Originally Posted by trout1105

The area can also be explored in a small boat if you are adventurous/experienced enough and it wont cost anywhere near as much as a trip on the "True North"[thumbsupbig]
I have done many "Cruises" in the Kimberly and the Gulf country of 10-14 day durations fishing and camping on the boat and I highly recommend anyone who is a competent seafarer to try this, Preparation is the key in this remote area[thumbsupbig]

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I did a 2 week trip across the Kimberly on a boat with 10 guests sleeping in swags in the beach every night. Wyndem to Derby

Best trip ever...glad my day paid for it.

Not much change out of $20k for two of us, brisbane to Brisbane.

Buccaneers Sea Safaris, I don’t think he operate anymore. Darryl was the Owners name from memory.

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Originally Posted by bob10

A mate of mine is an Engineer on a coastal ship around Australia, and we've had many discussions about conditions , and pay, for Officers and crews on these ships. Some Companies are better than others, but here we are talking about cruise ships, operating under flags of convenience, with perhaps thousands of low payed, low skilled workers, working mainly in the hotel industries. Workers in the seamanship and engineering departments for example , are higher skilled , in line with any merchant vessel crew . Speaking of Lloyds,[ and as you sound as though you have been involved in the industry I'm not going to try to tell you how to suck eggs] I'm sure you are aware they are not an insurance company.but a marketplace where insurance buyers and sellers come together. And now days are involved in much more than ocean cargo insurance . An interesting aside is how maritime insurance has changed from the days of port to port insurance, with the advent of containers it is now warehouse to warehouse , taking into account the container may travel by train, truck , or other. Slightly off topic I guess but covered perils of all risk policies include;[ the perils of the sea link is interesting]

Covered Perils

. All-risk policies cover losses caused by any perils that aren't specifically excluded. Named perils policies cover losses caused by the perils listed. Covered named perils typically include fire, assailing thieves, jettisons, barratry, and "

perils of the sea.

" Barratry means criminal acts committed by the ship's captain or crew that injure the shipowner. Perils of the sea are events that commonly occur on the water such as storms, winds, waves, sinking, capsizing, and collision with other objects.

The point of my post is that the operation of Cruise ships around the World, not just in Australia, must face some drastic changes. The link to the investigation of the industry in the US, as regards the rights of the passengers under the law, is a must read for any one considering going on a cruise. It is important to know your rights if you have been assaulted , raped, robbed, or heaven forbid, murdered. The article relates to the US law, I'm not absolutely sure how we stand under Australian law at sea on a cruise, in regards as to who initially investigates the offence, whether it is the ships crew, or Australian police , and the issues that may result from that. Cruising can be a wonderful experience, until it hits the fan. I think Australians have been naive in our approach to cruising thus far.

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Lloyds Register (LR) is a classification society for design and construction survey and Lloyds of London an insurer.

Agree the cruise ships have a huge hotel staff contingent. Watching the TV news here in Perth when crew were released many Europeans amongst them.

Reading also the Ruby Princess story in the Oz Magazine key message was how lovely friendly and nice the staff were. Like Bali I guess (which I’m no fan of) the staff are friendly and lovely which makes it a pleasure for many to visit. Something Aussies don’t do so well. What they earn while low for us is presumably better than nothing or life on the farm.

Don’t get me wrong I’m no fan of the concept or holiday idea whatsoever being stuck on a boat with 5000 other humans. The regular gastro stories put me off years ago.

Yes True North is a bucket list trip if you can’t get there otherwise.

What has been interesting is how FoC has become a household word without really understanding the concept.

As said, you can thank the smart lads at global accounting and law firms for creating these structures and providing these countries with a method of earning income.

With billions and still more coming mouths to feed these industries soak up a lot of people hard to replace. That’s a whole other and possibly more interesting topic.

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Originally Posted by W&KO

I did a 2 week trip across the Kimberly on a boat with 10 guests sleeping in swags in the beach every night. Wyndem to Derby

Best trip ever...glad my day paid for it.

Not much change out of $20k for two of us, brisbane to Brisbane.

Buccaneers Sea Safaris, I don’t think he operate anymore. Darryl was the Owners name from memory.

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We were up that way last winter,what a cracker place[biggrin]

I would love to get back and explore some more.

Pic for Trout:angel:

Yes i know he will have pics of bigger ones...

Thats the biggest fish SWMBO has ever caught.[biggrin]


https://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a...0/16269012.jpg

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Originally Posted by trout1105

The area can also be explored in a small boat if you are adventurous/experienced enough and it wont cost anywhere near as much as a trip on the "True North"[thumbsupbig]
I have done many "Cruises" in the Kimberly and the Gulf country of 10-14 day durations fishing and camping on the boat and I highly recommend anyone who is a competent seafarer to try this, Preparation is the key in this remote area[thumbsupbig]

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I love the place, nothing like it any where else in OZ, any way. We went to Derby for the Baoab festival , back in 80/81 from memory. Had to anchor in a deep hole away from the wharf because of the tidal drop, on the Saturday I was O.O.D. on board, and long story short, the Skipper brought back some ' dignitaries' for drinks after the official dinner ashore. When I arose about 5AM and did a set of rounds to check this & that, I poked my head in to the cubby hole that was the Wardroom , and here was a matriarch from Derby, sitting up finishing off a bottle of something or other, with all the boat's officers flaked out around her at the table. I declined her offer of a drink, noting that yes indeed, these Navy boys were pikers, and organised a boat ashore for her, with her departing words being something like "come up and visit me sometime" ringing in my ears. [bighmmm] But that wasn't the best part of our visit. We took some 44 drums of fuel north to a little campsite the local fishing club used, up a long inlet. Great campsite, with fresh water from a creek plenty of shade, nice sandy beach. On the local advice we took the smally boat [ tinnie] fishing. Had hand lines, with spoon lures. The fish followed the lure , and when we caught one, we tied the line off, and the school just followed the boat. Then it was a matter of ' which one do you want?'. From memory, Trevally. Or Queenfish. Never seen any thing like it, except for one time coming back from Gove, transiting a bay north of Darwin, with schools of fish boiling the surface of the water , the only clear water was around the hull of the patrol boat as it moved through. One of the troops had a hand line, and having no lure, attached an toothbrush to a hook, and caught fish. [ Memo to self- buy a roof top tinnie to go with the new 4x4 after the lotto win] I wish.

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Originally Posted by PerthDisco

Lloyds Register (LR) is a classification society for design and construction survey and Lloyds of London an insurer.

Agree the cruise ships have a huge hotel staff contingent. Watching the TV news here in Perth when crew were released many Europeans amongst them.

Reading also the Ruby Princess story in the Oz Magazine key message was how lovely friendly and nice the staff were. Like Bali I guess (which I’m no fan of) the staff are friendly and lovely which makes it a pleasure for many to visit. Something Aussies don’t do so well. What they earn while low for us is presumably better than nothing or life on the farm.

Don’t get me wrong I’m no fan of the concept or holiday idea whatsoever being stuck on a boat with 5000 other humans. The regular gastro stories put me off years ago.

Yes True North is a bucket list trip if you can’t get there otherwise.

What has been interesting is how FoC has become a household word without really understanding the concept.

As said, you can thank the smart lads at global accounting and law firms for creating these structures and providing these countries with a method of earning income.

With billions and still more coming mouths to feed these industries soak up a lot of people hard to replace. That’s a whole other and possibly more interesting topic.

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Lloyds register, of course. I knew there was such a thing but I forgot the nuts & bolts of it. Different to Lime St London. The times we have been cruising we always made a point of getting to know the' hotel' staff assigned to our room, getting to know their story. To a person they were from the poor end of town, sending money home to their families, trying to get ahead in the industry. Those that become managers of their departments are regarded as having made it , after a hard slog . We always gave them a glowing report at the end of the cruise, and made sure we visited the ATM to leave a little something for them. It was also good to see how building a good rapport with the waiters translated into a good breakfast experience in the restaurant in the mornings where few passengers attended. Cruising can be a good experience, you have to do your homework first. [ and stay away from P&O party boats. [wink11]]

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