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Thread: Keeping the West. Aus. mines open may have saved our economy

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipA View Post
    You know if you look at a bit of recent history the unfettered export of Iron ore and coal is a big contributor to where Australia is today without much secondary industry.

    It was the capital requirements and income from the iron ore mines and coal mines that bid up the Australian dollar to USD1.50 a few years ago.

    That was the death of most Australian secondary industry.

    If the government of the day had placed export taxes on the mine outputs and reduced the growth of the extractive industries, then it is arguable that Australian secondary industries would have remained onshore, as they would have been more competitive with imports.

    For example a Holden Commodore at say 34K could probably have competed better with a Mazda 3 at 40K than one at 30K .

    So the West Australians while patting themselves on the back should also recognise that Australian secondary industry died in a large part because of their exports.
    Regards PhilipA
    Rubbish.
    Our secondry industries including the car industry that was Heavily subsidized simply couldnt (and still cant) compete internationally.
    Why do you think that a large proportion of our secondary processing is done overseas, It's because we cannot compete and get the job done for the same price onshore.
    Laying the blame for that on the mining industry is a Cop OUT and unadulterated BS.
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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by trout1105 View Post
    Rubbish.
    Our secondry industries including the car industry that was Heavily subsidized simply couldnt (and still cant) compete internationally.
    Why do you think that a large proportion of our secondary processing is done overseas, It's because we cannot compete and get the job done for the same price onshore.
    Laying the blame for that on the mining industry is a Cop OUT and unadulterated BS.
    We have a few economist here
    And no offense but I think they need some education

    What happened here is called Dutch disease.

    Just Google it

  3. #53
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    Australia has a huge trade surplus against China.

    In Trump's words, China has a huge trade surplus against USA and it means China is raping USA. And therefore China needs America more than us needs China.

    So Australia has a huge surplus against China. What does it mean? You tell me haha

  4. #54
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    Our secondry industries including the car industry that was Heavily subsidized simply couldnt (and still cant) compete internationally.
    Why do you think that a large proportion of our secondary processing is done overseas, It's because we cannot compete and get the job done for the same price onshore.
    Laying the blame for that on the mining industry is a Cop OUT and unadulterated BS.
    it's good to see you agree with me even though you do not seem to know enough economics to know why.

    A major reason that Australia secondary industry cannot compete is that the exchange rate makes imports relatively cheaper or offshore secondary processing cheaper..
    I recommend that you read the link that I list below.

    Iron ore and the Australian Dollar: Two Peas in a Pod?

    The period of $1.50USD exchange rate coincided with the death of much of our secondary industry . You think that is coincidence?

    The export of Iron ore and coal dragged the exchange rate up to heights where no other industry was competitive with imports or competitive in export markets.

    It is only the extractive and primary industries that have remained competitive as they set the exchange rate and we generally have a freight advantage over competitors such as South America.

    Its a fact not BS. It is true the car industry was featherbedded far too long but even Toyota could not make money here at the exchange rate . It's impossible to know but I reckon Toyota would still be here if the exchange rate was back then as it is now.
    Regards PhilipA

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipA View Post
    it's good to see you agree with me even though you do not seem to know enough economics to know why.

    A major reason that Australia secondary industry cannot compete is that the exchange rate makes imports relatively cheaper or offshore secondary processing cheaper..
    I recommend that you read the link that I list below.

    Iron ore and the Australian Dollar: Two Peas in a Pod?

    The period of $1.50USD exchange rate coincided with the death of much of our secondary industry . You think that is coincidence?

    The export of Iron ore and coal dragged the exchange rate up to heights where no other industry was competitive with imports or competitive in export markets.

    It is only the extractive and primary industries that have remained competitive as they set the exchange rate and we generally have a freight advantage over competitors such as South America.

    Its a fact not BS. It is true the car industry was featherbedded far too long but even Toyota could not make money here at the exchange rate . It's impossible to know but I reckon Toyota would still be here if the exchange rate was back then as it is now.
    Regards PhilipA

    Well, there are actually two issues:

    1. We never had a home-grown car industry exporting Australian cars: the factories here were just branch offices for the US and Japan and when head office had a choice between their country and ours, they chose theirs. That's why, when Nissan had to close plants they closed overseas ones in lieu of closing plants in Japan. In effect the subsidies that GM got were a price to keep shuffling cars out here, when the subsidy went so did the logic of manufacturing here. There was a proposal in the 70s to create an Australian car company owned by the Commonwealth - it would've been a featherbedding disaster but the concept was right.

    2. Toyota and Ford couldn't keep manufacturing here once GM pulled out because there wasn't enough volume for the parts manufacturers they relied on to be economical, so one going down tipped all three over. Of course, the industry could've created an export-oriented industry but no-one was thinking that way and Ford and Toyota were just branch offices so had no incentive to do it. Which is why Korean and Japanese cars are built by Korean and Japanese car companies. And, BTW, the Yen is much stronger than the AUD so I don't totally buy the "it's too expensive to build here" argument. I also don't accept the "we can't build quality" argument - the Toyota factory in Port Melbourne used to turn out better cars than some of their factories in Japan.

    What I do find interesting is the remanufacturing of the US utes here - the old conversions, like 20 years ago, were apparently pretty shoddy but the current ones look like factory. No surprise, because, for example, the dashboards are apparently being provided by the company that used to supply Toyota et al with their dashboards.
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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipA View Post
    You know if you look at a bit of recent history the unfettered export of Iron ore and coal is a big contributor to where Australia is today without much secondary industry.

    It was the capital requirements and income from the iron ore mines and coal mines that bid up the Australian dollar to USD1.50 a few years ago.

    That was the death of most Australian secondary industry.

    If the government of the day had placed export taxes on the mine outputs and reduced the growth of the extractive industries, then it is arguable that Australian secondary industries would have remained onshore, as they would have been more competitive with imports.

    For example a Holden Commodore at say 34K could probably have competed better with a Mazda 3 at 40K than one at 30K .

    So the West Australians while patting themselves on the back should also recognise that Australian secondary industry died in a large part because of their exports.
    Regards PhilipA
    I think you are right in part, but you are missing that this was an outcome welcomed by most Australians.

    The Federal government welcomed the company and income tax revenue, the state governments welcomed the direct royalties from coal and iron ore (except for Victoria, SA, and Tasmania who didn't have any), and most Australians welcomed cheaper imports, lower fuel prices and cheaper overseas holidays with open arms. Why would the government of the day follow a policy that would cost them revenue and lose votes?
    John

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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipA View Post
    it's good to see you agree with me even though you do not seem to know enough economics to know why.

    A major reason that Australia secondary industry cannot compete is that the exchange rate makes imports relatively cheaper or offshore secondary processing cheaper..
    I recommend that you read the link that I list below.

    Iron ore and the Australian Dollar: Two Peas in a Pod?

    The period of $1.50USD exchange rate coincided with the death of much of our secondary industry . You think that is coincidence?

    The export of Iron ore and coal dragged the exchange rate up to heights where no other industry was competitive with imports or competitive in export markets.

    It is only the extractive and primary industries that have remained competitive as they set the exchange rate and we generally have a freight advantage over competitors such as South America.

    Its a fact not BS. It is true the car industry was featherbedded far too long but even Toyota could not make money here at the exchange rate . It's impossible to know but I reckon Toyota would still be here if the exchange rate was back then as it is now.
    Regards PhilipA
    IF we had of taxed the crap out of the mining industry we wouldn't have what we have now to pull us out of the ****.like they are doing at the moment AND for the last couple of decades.
    Once Keating floated the dollar the exchange rate has fluctuated ever since, The farming, fishing and mining industry has been able to cope with this the secondary industries obviously havent because they are Not competitive enough.
    Why blame the mining industry for the secondry industries shortfalls??
    Don't blame the exchange rates because our secondry industries were Not competitive BEFORE the dollar was floated.
    You only get one shot at life, Aim well

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