RIP Able Seaman Hugh Edward Markcrow, and Seaman Damien Humphries. 1987

The Oberons played a critical part in the Cold War, providing crucial intelligence on Chinese and Russian ships and submarines. They could get in close where the larger US submarines could not. For many years Submariners fought to have their exploits recognised as warlike service, in order to increase the benefits available to Sailors and their dependants. Orion and Otama carried out 16 such missions, fitted with state of the art eavesdropping equipment and carrying linguists for the task. These missions were carried out between March 1978 and December 1992. Orion was tasked , at the request of the US and British governments, to divert to Libya on her delivery voyage in 1978, to monitor signals from Colonel Gaddafi's Navy ships based in Tripoli, Benghazi, Darnah and Tobruk. The submariners involved in these operations have been awarded the Australian special Forces medal . Lest we forget.

Cold War missions by Australian secret submarines revealed


Secret spy missions forced to the surface

This is not pretty reading. Not posted to upset people.

Military Justice is/was not perfect


https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo...5lltG8-SsttPJs

I was not on HMAS Hobart the night the Otama lost two.I swear the fast exit on Hobart from Sydney and me in a wetsuit occured Friday night The Otama was Wednesday night! Edited my fake news out of the first post.

I joined up a search/recovery for Craig Mackelmann flying a RAAF Mirage I did with Otama. I was watching from Otama from Watson. I was on duty that night. I could see parts of the search I am or at least I was sure.

I will triple check dates before I shoot of my mouth again. My apologies all.

There was a big shark involved in the Mirage. This was not pretty or happy story either, Focsle crew and Port Bridge wing all had a great view of the BIG tiger shark I almost jumped on. The wet suit covered if I soiled myself :)

RIP Craig Mackelmann 2/5/1986
Noted now he was 4 years older than me at the time


I wonder if the family ever found peace. Hope so

https://www.couriermail.com.au/.../3053966c00e00d66aadba4...

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Originally Posted by NavyDiver

This is not pretty reading. Not posted to upset people.

Military Justice is/was not perfect


https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo...5lltG8-SsttPJs

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That was an interesting read as I was working at Fleet Headquarters at the time and specifically worked in the operations room with Taubman (before he joined the submarine), Pitt, Sinclair - a little later I was the personal staff officer to Dunne and Roach (and later developed a new Submarine Commanding Officer training program with Roach after he retired) - then on the staff of the Admiral Briggs.
I also had a submarine junior officer as a housemate at the time and can confirm the dysfunctional aspects in the Submarine world at the time.

So I knew most of the players and can confirm most of Dunne's observations to the other's characters. However Dunne is very opinionated and competitive particularly with the likes of Roach, Pitt and Briggs but he and the others are honourable people and I believe they were doing what they thought was correct but they like all of use are only human.

I have no doubt there was pressure to rap this inquiry up quickly as I know resources were tight at the time and most likely there was no one to replace Taubman. On the grounding, that was directly his fault and he should have been Court Marshalled (not such a biggy) as the CO of DARWIN was. I worked with him three times and he recovered after the Court Marshall - RIP Brian).

On the death of those poor sailors, well that would seem to be a breakdown of process and not directly the fault of Taubman - the question is if Taubman had been replaced and there had been a new skipper, given the same circumstances would the sailors still have been lost - who knows but my thought is yes due to the systems in place - eg no emergency alarm on the base of the fin outside, no emergency alarm in the fin and on the bridge. Better systems to account for numbers inside.

No matter what, what is clear this was an absolute tragedy and I know what a huge shock to the Navy at the time, but that would pail into insignificance for their families.

RIP

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 101RRS

he and the others are honourable people and I believe they were doing what they thought was correct but they like all of use are only human.



On the death of those poor sailors, well that would seem to be a breakdown of process and not directly the fault of Taubman - the question is if Taubman had been replaced and there had been a new skipper, given the same circumstances would the sailors still have been lost - who knows but my thought is yes due to the systems in place - eg no emergency alarm on the base of the fin outside, no emergency alarm in the fin and on the bridge. Better systems to account for numbers inside.

No matter what, what is clear this was an absolute tragedy and I know what a huge shock to the Navy at the time, but that would pail into insignificance for their families.

RIP

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Agree. I have spoken about this incident with some old mates who were Senior Sailors in the Submarine Squadron around this time. A break down of process is the consensus, with varying thoughts on how this came about. The most consistent theme being the lack of quality volunteers for the Squadron, fast tracking of training with short cuts taken, and some Submarines putting to sea with poorly trained crews. Add to that the Submarine in question had been ear marked for what was said to be an important surveillance mission ' somewhere in Asia ' , and the pressure was on. I have to add, just some old Submariners musings. Interesting to read about the Westralia incident being mentioned in the report. Another good mate was central to that incident, which again was primarily caused by pressure to get Westralia to Singapore for an important exercise. In a nutshell, their Engine needed injector fuel lines replaced, their were no genuine replacements in Australia, so permission was given to use locally purchased replacements. They were not up to standard, one or more burst, causing a major fire and loss of life. That's how it was explained to me, by the man who purchased the fuel lines.

I can vouch for the attitude of the ship must sail on time, every time, and meet operational requirements , almost no matter what, from my time in the Patrol Boat Squadron, Darwin. It was a matter of pride that your boat always sailed on patrol on time, and carried out all patrol tasks allocated , and more than once we sailed with outstanding defects [ which we rectified on patrol] none of which effected safety, but I can't help thinking there was an element of luck. We were fortunate to have experienced crews, dedicated to the task. It made my job as Charge 'Tiff more rewarding, the best part of my time in the service.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NavyDiver

I was not on HMAS Hobart the night the Otama lost two.I swear the fast exit on Hobart from Sydney and me in a wetsuit occured Friday night The Otama was Wednesday night! Edited my fake news out of the first post.

I joined up a search/recovery for Craig Mackelmann flying a RAAF Mirage I did with Otama. I was watching from Otama from Watson. I was on duty that night. I could see parts of the search I am or at least I was sure.

I will triple check dates before I shoot of my mouth again. My apologies all.

There was a big shark involved in the Mirage. This was not pretty or happy story either, Focsle crew and Port Bridge wing all had a great view of the BIG tiger shark I almost jumped on. The wet suit covered if I soiled myself :)

RIP Craig Mackelmann 2/5/1986
Noted now he was 4 years older than me at the time


I wonder if the family ever found peace. Hope so

https://www.couriermail.com.au/.../3053966c00e00d66aadba4...

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No apologies needed, age DOES weary us and the years do condemn, as the ODE goes. Time can be a great healer, but it's worth remembering, as explained to me by one who knows, [ an eminent trick cyclist] that some veterans who have been in stressful situations may have no problems until they get to about 50 years old, then PTSD kicks in. In that case , people should not suffer in silence, but seek appropriate help. Sound advice.

A few Vets are unhappy that the topic is being remembered for that reason Bob. The families are the same. A brick sitting in our stomach. It never goes away as we cared. That is itself a positive I think.

My drug of choice is running. Bike pedaling is a current substitute while I cannot run. We all need a crutch at times. Or a wheel chair. Use what we need and seek help if we do need it. [thumbsupbig].

Yes Bob, 50 years of age seems to be the watershed.

i suppose work and enthusiasm and young family keep us more occupied .

Agree with Diver, keeping active is an excellent way to improvement

dave

I was always under the impression that a ship's captain who ran a naval vessel aground would never command again and his career had thus stalled. So as in Animal Farm are some officers more equal than others? Lodge? Religion? Old School Tie? Family?

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Originally Posted by Bigbjorn

I was always under the impression that a ship's captain who ran a naval vessel aground would never command again and his career had thus stalled.

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An absolute Furfy but obviously depends on the circumstances.