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Thread: Impeachment or the 25th before the 20th?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDNSW View Post
    25th - no effect on future charges, unable to pardon himself or anyone. If he is considered unfit to hold office for mental reasons this may be a legal argument for not being liable for his actions in courts as well.

    Impeachment - if convicted by the senate, cannot pardon himself or anyone, until then he still has all powers of the president.

    The power of a President to pardon himself has never been tested in court, and is disputed.

    A president can only pardon Federal crimes. He is likely to face charges from the New York prosecutors as soon as he is no longer President, and other charges are also likely. If he does not pardon himself, after the antics of this week he is likely to face Federal charges, including over "that phone call", and the Georgian prosecutors have also shown interest.

    Not: I am not a lawyer, but I have been following this with interest as I have a twin who lives in the USA.
    The smart thing to do is take the 25th so VP Pence becomes POTUS and then he can pardon Trump!
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by RANDLOVER View Post
    The smart thing to do is take the 25th so VP Pence becomes POTUS and then he can pardon Trump!
    Do you think he will ? Trump has burned his bridges. From Pelosi;

    Several House Democrats are expected to introduce articles of impeachment on Tuesday (AEDT).
    In a letter to colleagues on Saturday (AEDT) Speaker Nancy Pelosi said that if Trump is not removed by his cabinet, the House will "proceed with our action".

    She said there was more support in the Democratic caucus to impeach him now than there was when Trump was impeached in December 2019 over his dealings with Ukraine.


    In her letter Pelosi also said she had spoken to the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff about preventing an "unhinged" Trump from ordering military actions, including a possible nuclear strike, in his final days at the White House.


    Pelosi said she had called General Mark Milley "to discuss available precautions for preventing an unstable president from initiating military hostilities or accessing the launch codes" for nuclear war.
    I’m pretty sure the dinosaurs died out when they stopped gathering food and started having meetings to discuss gathering food

    A bookshop is one of the only pieces of evidence we have that people are still thinking

  3. #13
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    The Dems won't be able to impeach him on their own, as the two newly elected Georgians aren't sworn in yet, so it is a 50/50 Dem/Rep split but VP Pence has the deciding vote, so they will need Rep's to cross the floor.
    2005 D3 TDV6 Present
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by RANDLOVER View Post
    The smart thing to do is take the 25th so VP Pence becomes POTUS and then he can pardon Trump!
    Relieved to hear that the D^D has taken the initiative & apparently Trump cannot use the "football" to start a War especially as it was using Windows XP Pro or Home. Most people's fear.

    The first bit is true though, as of this morning's press.

    I thought that would have one of their first decisions when things got a bit risky ie. Change the Password that could only be used from their HQ. It'd be a bit unlucky if he sat there all day pressing buttons instead of playing with his TV remote watching himself all over the city & fluked it though.


    "WTF!"

    EDIT.
    Thanks Bob, you beat me to it ^.

    In her letter Pelosi also said she had spoken to the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff about preventing an "unhinged" Trump from ordering military actions, including a possible nuclear strike, in his final days at the White House.

    Pelosi said she had called General Mark Milley "to discuss available precautions for preventing an unstable president from initiating military hostilities or accessing the launch codes" for nuclear war.
    I guess the word has been put out to all Nuke Subs , Stations & Bases to ignore future Codes except this new one ie. QWERTY UIOP{}|.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by RANDLOVER View Post
    The Dems won't be able to impeach him on their own, as the two newly elected Georgians aren't sworn in yet, so it is a 50/50 Dem/Rep split but VP Pence has the deciding vote, so they will need Rep's to cross the floor.
    So far, Lisa Murkowski [Rep. Alaska] says she will cross the floor to impeach, two others have said they will consider it. If Pence doesn't invoke the 25th., Dem's are considering offering articles of impeachment through a privileged resolution, this would allow the Chamber to skip a hearing and investigation so members could move ahead with a vote to impeach Trump within two days. If Trump were to be impeached, it is possible to make it so he may never be elected to office again. Who knows what his supporters would do if that happens.

    So far Pelosi has said this;

    Several House Democrats are expected to introduce articles of impeachment on Tuesday (AEDT).
    In a letter to colleagues on Saturday (AEDT) Speaker Nancy Pelosi said that if Trump is not removed by his cabinet, the House will "proceed with our action".

    She said there was more support in the Democratic caucus to impeach him now than there was when Trump was impeached in December 2019 over his dealings with Ukraine.


    In her letter Pelosi also said she had spoken to the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff about preventing an "unhinged" Trump from ordering military actions, including a possible nuclear strike, in his final days at the White House.


    Pelosi said she had called General Mark Milley "to discuss available precautions for preventing an unstable president from initiating military hostilities or accessing the launch codes" for nuclear war.
    I’m pretty sure the dinosaurs died out when they stopped gathering food and started having meetings to discuss gathering food

    A bookshop is one of the only pieces of evidence we have that people are still thinking

  6. #16
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    Twitter has permanently closed his personal account citing “the risk of further incitement of violence.''

    He continues to have tweets deleted from the other accounts he has access to though...

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by windsock View Post
    Twitter has permanently closed his personal account citing “the risk of further incitement of violence.''

    He continues to have tweets deleted from the other accounts he has access to though...
    He still Twits , just uses the POTUS account

  8. #18
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    Impeachment would seem unlikely , in order to keep the peace. 70% of Trump voters polled say Trump was wrong in what he did to incite the riot. A few Republican Lawmakers and Senators publicly denounce Trump, a handful say they would vote for impeachment.





    Here are the few Republicans who have called for Trump’s removal







    The calls for Donald Trump’s removal from office are intensifying, as lawmakers condemn the president for inciting the mob of his supporters who stormed and vandalized the US Capitol.


    Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan is one of the Republicans who has called for Trump’s removal.

    That includes a small group of mostly moderate Republican leaders who have condemned Trump and demanded that he resign or be forced out, either by invoking the 25th amendment or impeachment proceedings.

    The number of GOP voices remains tiny compared to the growing number of Democrats, led by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and soon-to-be Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, who are calling for Trump’s ouster.
    Democrats are already planning to initiate a second round of impeachment proceedings against the president and could vote on articles as early as next week. Trump could very well be impeached a second time, but two-thirds of the Senate would still be needed to convict him before Trump could be removed from office.

    Most Republican senators have so far stayed silent or are opposed. Large swaths of the House GOP caucus stand resolutely behind Trump. But the forcefulness of some denouncements signals there are at least some in the Republican Party who want a future separate from Trump — small though that group may be.


    Republican officials calling for Trump’s removal


    Below are the few Republicans currently in office who have so far demanded Trump’s resignation or removal from office.

    Sen. Lisa Murkowski (R-AK)


    Alaska senator Lisa Murkowski became the first Republican senator to demand that Trump leave office. She did not mention impeachment or other methods of removal, but was unequivocal in her censure of the president.
    “I want him to resign. I want him out. He has caused enough damage,” Murkowski told the Anchorage Daily News in a Friday interview.
    “He doesn’t want to stay there,” she added. “He only wants to stay there for the title. He only wants to stay there for his ego. He needs to get out. He needs to do the good thing, but I don’t think he’s capable of doing a good thing.”
    Murkowski has a reputation as one of the more moderate Senate Republicans — though she may not even call herself a Republican for much longer. She told the Anchorage Daily News that she might leave the party if it continues to organize itself around Trump. “I will tell you, if the Republican Party has become nothing more than the party of Trump, I sincerely question whether this is the party for me,” she said.


    Vermont Gov. Phil Scott


    Vermont’s Republican governor, who was just sworn in for his third term, was among the first prominent Republicans to demand Trump resign “or be removed from office by his Cabinet, or by Congress.”
    “Make no mistake, the President of the United States is responsible for this event,” Scott wrote in a thread on Twitter Wednesday afternoon. “President Trump has orchestrated a campaign to cause an insurrection that overturns the results of a free, fair and legal election.”
    The fabric of our democracy and the principles of our republic are under attack by the President.Enough is enough.President Trump should resign or be removed from office by his Cabinet, or by the Congress. 6/6
    — Governor Phil Scott (@GovPhilScott) January 6, 2021


    Rep. Adam Kinzinger (R-IL)


    Kinzinger also called on the Cabinet to invoke the 25th Amendment, the first Republican member of Congress to do so.
    “All indications are that the president has become unmoored not just from his duty or even his oath but from reality itself,”

    Kinzinger said in a video statement posted on Twitter. “It is for this reason that I call for the Vice President and members of the Cabinet to ensure the next few weeks are safe for the American people and that we have a sane captain of the ship.”It’s with a heavy heart I am calling for the sake of our Democracy that the 25th Amendment be invoked. My statement: pic.twitter.com/yVyQrYcjuD
    — Adam Kinzinger (@RepKinzinger) January 7, 2021

    Kinzinger was among the first Republicans to recognize Biden as the rightful president-elect, and has tried to debunk election fraud conspiracies. He has criticized his congressional colleagues who had planned to object to the Electoral College results, calling them “not serious people.” Kinzinger did not specifically mention impeachment in his statement, though he told MSNBC he has not ruled out supporting such a move.


    Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan


    Maryland’s governor may be the most prominent GOP figure to demand Trump’s removal. In a press conference Thursday afternoon, Hogan said “there is no question that America could be better off if the president resigned or were removed from office.”#BREAKING: Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan calling for President Trump to resign or be removed @wusa9 pic.twitter.com/NSN41y2t3W
    — Lorenzo Hall (@LorenzoHall) January 7, 2021
    After the press conference, Hogan wrote, “It is clear to me that President Trump has abandoned his sacred oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States.”
    Hogan, though a Republican, is not exactly an infrequent Trump critic, and he’s broken with the president on his handling of the coronavirus and immigration. In 1974, Hogan’s father, a GOP congressman, was the first House Republican to support the impeachment of Richard Nixon.


    Massachusetts Gov. Charlie Baker


    Massachusetts’s Republican Gov. Charlie Baker — another moderate GOPer who’s clashed with the president — also blamed Trump for the violence in Washington, DC, and for fomenting the chaos with his election fraud conspiracy theories. In a news conference Thursday, he said Pence should lead the transition.
    “It’s 14 days, OK?” Baker said, according to the Boston Globe. “I think people should pursue whatever they believe will make it possible, in the most expeditious way possible, for the president to step down and the vice president to assume the powers of the office for the next 14 days so that an orderly transition can take place.”

    Most of the Republican resistance stops short of removal


    Still, the list of Republicans who have explicitly said Trump should go is still quite short, and maybe not all that surprising.
    Many — though certainly not allRepublican leaders have now called out Trump for feeding these conspiracy theories to his supporters, and for using his platform at the rally Wednesday to radicalize the protesters present.

    Sen. Ben Sasse (R-NE) did not directly call for Trump’s removal, but in an interview with CBS This Morning, he signaled that he was open to impeachment proceedings.Republican Senator Ben Sasse of Nebraska has blamed President Trump for the violent assault on the Capitol, calling it an "inevitable and ugly outcome."@SenSasse joins us now. pic.twitter.com/bZHDKuXEWx
    — CBS This Morning (@CBSThisMorning) January 8, 2021
    “The House, if they come together and have a process, I will definitively consider whatever articles they might move because as I’ve told you, I believe the president has disregarded his oath of office,” Sasse told CBS This Morning’s Gayle King.

    “He swore an oath to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution. He acted against that. What he did was wicked.”


    A handful of Cabinet officials have also resigned in protest, most notably Elaine Chao, the transportation secretary, and Betsy DeVos, the education secretary. Others considered resigning, including National Security Adviser Robert O’Brien, though he was reportedly persuaded to stay on.
    Condemnation came from former officials, including those who served under Trump. Former Attorney General Bill Barr, who resigned last month not long after he denied the president’s allegations of widespread voter fraud, said in a statement that “orchestrating a mob to pressure Congress is inexcusable.” Barr said, “The president’s conduct yesterday was a betrayal of his office and supporters.” John Kelly, former White House chief of staff and former homeland security secretary, said on CNN that he would, if still in the Cabinet, vote to remove Trump.
    Some of these denouncements come a bit late, as many of Trump’s Republican allies did little to stop or condemn Trump in weeks prior.

    And so far, few Republicans with actual power to remove the president from office — i.e., those in Congress or leading a Cabinet agency — have said they would definitely do so. Pence is reportedly opposed to invoking the 25th Amendment, and many other lawmakers look like they’d rather move on, echoing the president’s statement Thursday night, where he recognized that a “new administration” would take over and tried to distance himself from the Capitol assault.
    Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC), one of Trump’s biggest defenders in the Senate, said Friday that, as Trump stated, “it is time to heal and move on.”
    “If Speaker Pelosi pushes impeachment in the last days of the Trump presidency it will do more harm than good.”
    I’m pretty sure the dinosaurs died out when they stopped gathering food and started having meetings to discuss gathering food

    A bookshop is one of the only pieces of evidence we have that people are still thinking

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatso View Post
    He still Twits , just uses the POTUS account
    They are on to him there too.;

    "Trump later tried to tweet from the @POTUS account, but the tweets were deleted and the account was limited. A message from Trump was also attempted from the campaign account @TeamTrump, but the message was deleted and the account was suspended."
    I’m pretty sure the dinosaurs died out when they stopped gathering food and started having meetings to discuss gathering food

    A bookshop is one of the only pieces of evidence we have that people are still thinking

  10. #20
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    Actually, the full story highlights Trump's fragile mental state. Just as well they've secured the nuclear keys.



    'We will not be SILENCED!' Trump defiant after permanent Twitter ban



    Olivana Lathouris
    1 hour ago



    Twitter has announced the permanent suspension of Donald Trump's account following a number of temporary locks on his account this week.

    © AP Donald Trump has been blocked from using Twitter.

    "After close review of recent Tweets from the @realDonaldTrump account and the context around them — specifically how they are being received and interpreted on and off Twitter — we have permanently suspended the account due to the risk of further incitement of violence," Twitter said in a statement.
    Soon after his account was blocked from Twitter, Mr Trump tried to post a tweet from the official presidential account."

    As I have been saying for a long time, Twitter has gone further and further in banning free speech, and tonight, Twitter employees have coordinated with the Democrats and the Radical Left in removing my account from their platform, to silence me – and YOU, the 75,000,000 great patriots who voted for me," he wrote.
    "We have been negotiating with various other sites, and will have a big announcement soon, while we also look at the possibilities of building out our own platform in the near future.
    "We will not be SILENCED!
    "Twitter is not about promoting FREE SPEECH.
    "They are all about promoting a Radical Left platform where some of the most vicious people in the world are allowed to speak freely.

    The tweet was swiftly deleted.
    © AP Donald Trump speaks at a rally in Georgia.He then appeared to try and commandeer the account of his campaign's digital director, Gary Coby.
    Shortly after Mr Coby's account name was changed to Donald J Trump, it too was deleted.
    So too was the account of his presidential campaign, @TeamTrump, which has also been taken down.
    "As I have been saying for a long time, Twitter has gone further and further in banning free speech," he wrote on the Team Trump account before it was taken down.

    Reddit has banned its popular Trump-themed subreddit, and Discord has banned its Trump channel.
    The ban comes after a historic week in United States with Democratic candidate Joe Biden officially announced as the winner of the election and violent protests at the US Capitol in Washington.
    https://twitter.com/TwitterSafety/st...84877634838528
    "In the context of horrific events this week, we made it clear on Wednesday that additional violations of the Twitter Rules would potentially result in this very course of action," the statement from Twitter said.
    "Our public interest framework exists to enable the public to hear from elected officials and world leaders directly. It is built on a principle that the people have a right to hold power to account in the open."
    "However, we made it clear going back years that these accounts are not above our rules entirely and cannot use Twitter to incite violence, among other things."

    © Twitter Donald Trump has conceded he will not be president come January 20.Twitter cited two tweets sent in recent days as against its glorification of violence policies.

    "On January 8, 2021, President Donald J. Trump tweeted:
    "The 75,000,000 great American Patriots who voted for me, AMERICA FIRST, and MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN, will have a GIANT VOICE long into the future. They will not be disrespected or treated unfairly in any way, shape or form!!!"
    https://twitter.com/Ninecomau/status...87513863847936
    "Shortly thereafter, the President tweeted:
    "To all of those who have asked, I will not be going to the Inauguration on January 20th."

    "Due to the ongoing tensions in the United States, and an uptick in the global conversation in regards to the people who violently stormed the Capitol on January 6, 2021, these two Tweets must be read in the context of broader events in the country and the ways in which the President's statements can be mobilised by different audiences, including to incite violence, as well as in the context of the pattern of behaviour from this account in recent weeks."

    Mr Trump has also been banned from posting on Facebook and Instagram for the remaining 11 days of his presidency.

    Twitter has also suspended the accounts of Mr Trump's former national security advisor Michael Flynn, and his legal advisor Sidney Powell.

    © AP Trump supporters listening to a speech from the president calling on them to march on Congress.One of Mr Trump's top advisers Jason Miller took to Twitter to criticise the platform.
    "Disgusting. Big Tech wants to cancel all 75M @realDonaldTrump supporters," he tweeted.
    "If you don't think they're coming for you next, you're wrong."
    Mr Trump's son Donald Jr also lashed out.
    "So the ayatollah, and numerous other dictatorial regimes can have Twitter accounts with no issue despite threatening genocide to entire countries and killing homosexuals etc... but The President of the United States should be permanently suspended," he tweeted.
    "Mao would be proud."
    Meanwhile, Apple has issued an ultimatum to the social media platform Parler, which has become a refuge in the past year for conservatives too toxic for Twitter.
    Apple has told Parler it needs to implement stricter moderation of its platform or it will be removed from its App Store.

    © AFP via Getty Images Parler, founded in Nevada in 2018, bills itself as an alternative to 'ideological suppression' at other social networks."We have received numerous complaints regarding objectionable content in your Parler service, accusations that the Parler app was used to plan, coordinate, and facilitate the illegal activities in Washington D.C. on January 6, 2021 that led (among other things) to loss of life, numerous injuries, and the destruction of property," Apple wrote to Parler.
    "The app also appears to continue to be used to plan and facilitate yet further illegal and dangerous activities."
    Parler has been given 24 hours to submit a moderation improvement plan.
    But Parler's CEO John Matze has shown no sign of backing down.
    "We will not cave to pressure from anti-competitive actors! We will and always have enforced our rules against violence and illegal activity," he wrote in a message on his own platform.
    "But we WONT cave to politically motivated companies and those authoritarians who hate free speech!"

    Google has been less patient, immediately suspending Parler from its Google Play store.

    I’m pretty sure the dinosaurs died out when they stopped gathering food and started having meetings to discuss gathering food

    A bookshop is one of the only pieces of evidence we have that people are still thinking

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