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Thread: Road Safety or Revenue?

  1. #121
    JDNSW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by POD View Post
    I get a little frustrated when I see / hear discussions or articles where fines / deterrents / enforcement are cited as major factors in the reduction in the road death toll. If that were so, it would be obvious that behaviour and lawfulness on the roads would be significantly better than it was in, say, the 1970s when we were killing over a thousand people a year on the roads here in Vic. I doubt that anyone would actually suggest that driver behaviour is better now than it was in 1976. In my observation, behaviour on the roads is noticeably worse year by year. I believe there are two factors that have contributed to the reducing death toll; Engineering and Medicine. Perhaps law enforcement could be said to contribute by increasing the funds available to medicine?
    No. There have been only two legislative actions that have had noticeable effects on the accident statistics - compulsory fitting and wearing of seat belts, and the introduction of random breath testing.

    Contrary to your assertion, in my view, driving behaviour has improved since the 1970s, although perhaps not dramatically.

    The steady improvement in statistics, which has been continuing ever since the start of road statistics in the 1920s seems to be mainly from two factors -

    1. Better engineering, as you say, but mainly civil engineering rather than mechanical engineering, although this has played some part, with better steering and brakes and better tyres and to a limited extent crash safety, although this is largely counteracted by higher speeds. A good example of the effects of civil engineering is the Pacific Highway, where the accident rate has dropped dramatically for every section converted to dual carriageway, despite the higher speed limit and much higher average speeds. But the small changes being made all the time cumulatively have probably more effect. For example, in this area, accident rate on the Golden Highway has dropped substantially, despite higher traffic levels, with the introduction of edge marking, turn lanes, level crossings with lights instead of stop signs (used to be at least one fatal per year at these before), better engineered curves etc.

    2. Driver attitudes. The best illustration of this is that in the '70s if a mate got booked for drunk driving, the most usual comment would be "bad luck". Today the more likely response is "you idiot!". But this extends to all areas of driving, and my impression, at least in places I drive, that this is widespread.

    Of course this does not mean that there are no idiots on the road, and in my view, they stand out more. A prime example is the dashcam footage I have from when I was teaching my grandaughter to drive, and we were on the Lachlan Valley Way. With learners being limited to 90 in NSW, we had quite a queue behind us when we got to the only overtaking lane between Booroowa and the Hume. While being passed by a string of cars and trucks on the right, a really bright spark in a ute passed us on the gravel shoulder to our left, with barely his width between us and the guardrail.
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  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDNSW View Post
    No. There have been only two legislative actions that have had noticeable effects on the accident statistics - compulsory fitting and wearing of seat belts, and the introduction of random breath testing.

    Contrary to your assertion, in my view, driving behaviour has improved since the 1970s, although perhaps not dramatically.

    The steady improvement in statistics, which has been continuing ever since the start of road statistics in the 1920s seems to be mainly from two factors -

    1. Better engineering, as you say, but mainly civil engineering rather than mechanical engineering, although this has played some part, with better steering and brakes and better tyres and to a limited extent crash safety, although this is largely counteracted by higher speeds. A good example of the effects of civil engineering is the Pacific Highway, where the accident rate has dropped dramatically for every section converted to dual carriageway, despite the higher speed limit and much higher average speeds. But the small changes being made all the time cumulatively have probably more effect. For example, in this area, accident rate on the Golden Highway has dropped substantially, despite higher traffic levels, with the introduction of edge marking, turn lanes, level crossings with lights instead of stop signs (used to be at least one fatal per year at these before), better engineered curves etc.......................
    Another civil eng. solution I think that has helped is the rumble strips for lane departure, at first used on road shoulders but are now being used for centre lines on a freeway near me, actually they pinch about 1/2 metre of the shoulder width and put it in the centre between the two oncoming lanes. I think they should make all solid white lines rumble strips, as this weekend while out in the countryside when approaching a bend at 100 kph, I saw a ute exit the bend toward me with both RHS wheels over double white lines!
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  3. #123
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    Does the bicycle lane down the middle of the road help?
    Jonesfam
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  4. #124
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    I believe I said earlier in much the same vein, it's not been driver behavior that's done it but the better design of cars and roads although that is something not so obvious here in WA where some of the most awful junctions and freeway design is still being carried out.
    Of course all these design staff are fully qualified......
    AlanH.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATH View Post
    I believe I said earlier in much the same vein, it's not been driver behavior that's done it but the better design of cars and roads although that is something not so obvious here in WA where some of the most awful junctions and freeway design is still being carried out.
    Of course all these design staff are fully qualified......
    AlanH.
    Good design , case in point . Main street in Clarkson ( oops " Ocean Keys " ) has a single traffic lane and pockets of a parking lanes with enough room for about 10 cars , and about every 60/70 Mts the parking lane disappears for about 50 mts leaving just the single lane ( not sure why ?? ) , guess where the bus stop is ?? yep in the single lane sections thus effectively stopping all traffic when the buss sets down and picks up !! . Not being Qualified i would have utilised one of the parking sections for the buss stop . .

  6. #126
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    Many weird road designs around Fatso, no standard roundabouts etc. Just look at the mess they've made of the Ocean Reef/Wanneroo Roads. What a total balls up and a complete waste of much land plus if heading east/west, drivers now have 2 sets of lights instead of one!
    Gets even worse (if that's possible) when local council "road designers" are involved.
    Just have to live with it or we could all get nonsense degrees and join their overpaid club....
    AlanH.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATH View Post
    Many weird road designs around Fatso, no standard roundabouts etc. Just look at the mess they've made of the Ocean Reef/Wanneroo Roads. What a total balls up and a complete waste of much land plus if heading east/west, drivers now have 2 sets of lights instead of one!
    Gets even worse (if that's possible) when local council "road designers" are involved.
    Just have to live with it or we could all get nonsense degrees and join their overpaid club....
    AlanH.
    Holy crap , just looked a picture of Ocean Reef roundabout i thought the Joondalup one was bad enough but that is unbelievable . Looks like something in China or Loss Angeles .

  8. #128
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    I think this is on topic...



    Paul

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  9. #129
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    Just look at Marios thread and like many of us wished the idiot was a lot poorer for being so selfish and then rude. I nice big fine for her and many people I see driving like idiots would make me smile It would still go to revenue as well as make me smile

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatso View Post
    Holy crap , just looked a picture of Ocean Reef roundabout i thought the Joondalup one was bad enough but that is unbelievable . Looks like something in China or Loss Angeles .
    It's called "Traffic calming", an oxymoron if ever I heard one.
    ​JayTee

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