Diesels not an economic choice?

**Pedro_The_Swift** · 29th June 2006, 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by incisor

look at it this way, while your in getting your next load of fuel the rattlers will take the lead and then some :P

*bites tongue hard

**DiscoTDI** · 29th June 2006, 06:54 PM

This might be the case for land rovers, but I have a 2004 diesel crusier ute for work and it gets 5.5klm per litre, my V8 Disco gets 6 klm per litre. Give me a V8 petrol any day

**incisor** · 29th June 2006, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by Pedro_The_Swift

*bites tongue hard

feel free to bite the end off it mate!

also feel free to say what you have to say.. dont go hiding behind them dentures......

**PhilipA** · 29th June 2006, 08:53 PM

I suppose all you guys have heard that the RACV has listed the most expensive 4WD to own is a Landcruiser diesel.

If all the logic were followed shouldn't it be a Lancruiser Petrol that is the most expensive?

Pity that the Government has removed the 38C rebate on commercial use of Biodiesel. Double dipping as they had already given 38c to the producers. The mines immediately cancelled the biggest contract. So much for a cost advantage. Bio diesel now has a bleak future in Australia as it cannot compete with dino fuel on cost. Darned economic rationalists think that the economy is most efficient with no subsidies.
Regards Philip A

**Michael2** · 29th June 2006, 09:21 PM

Okay, LPG is cheaper to run than Diesel around town. On a recent 6,000km trip from Melb through the Simpson, and onto Alice Springs, Uluru etc my SIII had a fuel bill of $1267 and the 200Tdi Defender had a fuel bill of $1170. I used 280 litres for 1000 km from Mungerannie to Alice through the Simpson, and he used 130. (one fuel tank for him, a fuel tank, lpg tanks & 8 jerrycans for me). Around town I get 10km per $1 on the SIII and it will cost me about $1.40 to travel the same distance in my Defender (I get it tomorrow - I'm excited

, but I digress).

But I don't think this is what the Ford guy had in mind. I heard an interview (probably on ABC Radio) a few weeks ago, where the argument was diesels vs new generation petrols.

The argument went something like this.

Petrol produces 'x' grams of green house gases per litre.
Diesel produces 'x'+'y' grams per litre, but delivers better milage, hence less pollutant per mile.
New generation petrols will deliver better milage and less pollutants, and will hence deliver fewer pullutants per mile than diesel does.
These figures have a big impact on European legislators who engineer society through tax (on fuels, cars, engine sizes etc).

Given the above, diesel technology doesn't compare as favourably to petrol for a manufacturer.

**JDNSW** · 30th June 2006, 05:40 AM

Yes - but new generation diesel engines with similar improvements to those in the petrol engines will step ahead of the petrol engines again. As I said above, you cannot get away from the fact that diesels have, and always will have, an effective compression ratio around twice that of petrol engines, which means that using similar technology they will be ahead on economy and emissions provided that similar efforts are put in to these in design. A recent article in Scientific American, I think I read it, on a diesel hybrid SUV made this point.
John

**Michael2** · 30th June 2006, 07:32 AM

I agree JD, but the constraints on such progress are the corporate mindset and the political social engineering factors.

I read recently (last few years) that the next generation of military vehicles will be diesel hybrids. The author made the point that (then) diesel was costing the US Military $2+ p/l landed in Afgahnistan for the thirsty Hummers, they needed better economy / range.

About that time I saw an article on the www, which I haven't been able to locate since, but it was about a university in the UK that took a standard Tdi Defender and replaced the flywheel & starter motor with an electric motor / generator that had the ability to act as a starter too. They successfully ran the Defender as a hybrid without much modification from standard. The research was MOD sponsored I think. - Now how would that be as an after market accessory

**PhilipA** · 30th June 2006, 07:54 AM

Re technology.
Have a look at this
http://www.popsci.com/popsci/automot...cbccdrcrd.html

New tech has great potential with petrol engines also.
Regards Philip A

**feral** · 30th June 2006, 05:01 PM

I have an excell spreadsheet which works out the difference between petrol v's LPG. It gives you heaps of information if you are interested in doing the conversion.

My only problem is that it will not upload to the site.

Any ideas...

**dobbo** · 30th June 2006, 05:28 PM

I've only had the one duel fuel car an old ford v8 P.O.S. It had a 302 and a 80l LPG tank (usable 60L)the tank and system was only a few years old and the engine in good tune. However, in the winter mornings and evening it was very fuel efficient for an old v8, as soon as the outside temperature got over 15 degrees more fuel was used 20 degrees even more 30+ c, Forget it switch to petrol. I have two diesels one, a TD5 very fuel efficient, the other a 2.25 in my old series, the original motor how many km's is anyones guess, yet it's still a lot cheaper to run than the LPG regardless of outside ambient temperature.

Could this be a reason you cannot get LPG in the outback? (it's to hot out there for it to be feasible)

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