Yes, and this may partly explain why it seems most Defender sales today are wagons, whereas troopies seem to be not selling too well, but tray tops are still the big sellers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reads90
John
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Yes, and this may partly explain why it seems most Defender sales today are wagons, whereas troopies seem to be not selling too well, but tray tops are still the big sellers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reads90
John
Some friends of ours suggested we get a troopy, but with kids that really was the end of the argument before anything else needed to be considered. Plus the car was nearly 20k CHEAPER....:cool: :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Reads90
There used to be a great comparison of the two in an online version of Overlander. It's not online anymore, but this is the text of it.
Quote:
Landrover Defender Xtreme vs Toyota TroopCarrier RV
Serious 4WDs come in many forms but few approach the true meaning of the term better than the Toyota TroopCarrier and Land Rover Defender. These vehicles epitomise the traditional, rugged, minimal-frills 4WD and are a popular choice among buyers who value function over form and favour off-road ability and space ahead of plush interiors and a fancy stereo system.
While the Toyota and Land Rover have much in common, there are marked differences in how the two vehicles go about fulfilling their intended purpose. To discover their individual strengths and weaknesses, Overlander put them through a tough four-day test involving everything from freeways to forest tracks to beach driving. The pair were also used as packhorses for camping gear, surfboards and other paraphernalia.
Send In The Troops
Toyota's long-serving TroopCarrier received a major update for 2000 with the release of the 78 Series. Although it looks virtually identical to the 75 Series that preceded it, the new Troopie boasts several important new features. These include a 20mm wider track front and rear, coil-spring suspension at the front with the existing live axle, redesigned rear suspension with longer leaf springs, better brakes and five-stud wheels.
The TroopCarrier comes in three-, six- and 11-seat versions with a choice of petrol or diesel engines, as well as a diesel-only six-seat RV. We chose the $51,490 RV, which has a snorkel as standard (previously a $231 option) plus chrome gutter drip moulds and a high-mount brake light. Finished in a distinctive fire-engine red, our vehicle also had airconditioning ($2477) and front and rear diff locks ($2735), taking the price as tested to $56,702 plus ORC.
Overlander has covered the details of the 78 Series range and the Troopie RV in previous issues (December 1999 for the 78 Series launch and April 2000 for the RV individual test) so we won't travel over the same ground here except to say the changes to the 78 Series Troopie have produced a vehicle that retains the tough practicality of the previous model and adds huge improvements in ride quality and handling.
Behind The Wheel
Although the Troopie leaves you in no doubt it is still a utilitarian vehicle, occupant comfort is nothing to complain about. The new front seats offer better padding on the base and back with improved lumbar support, thicker head restraints and greater fore/aft and recline adjustment. For long trips they're pretty good, giving acceptable comfort and support even when the going gets rough. Legroom is also a strong point, with plenty of space for tall front seat occupants to stretch out - unless you're sitting in the centre seat where the transmission hump makes things tight.
Rear seat passengers are also well catered for in terms of comfort and room, although not quite to the same extent as those up front. The front passenger seat slides and swings forward to give rear seat access - the system works well but is no substitute for the extra doors of the Defender.
Cabin noise is of a higher level than you would find in plusher wagons but not too intrusive, while the view through the upright windscreen is extensive with excellent vision over the military-style bonnet.
Cargo space is nothing short of cavernous. The RV offers 1.245m of load length with the rear seat in place, and even more when it is folded up. There are holes in the floor for tie-down hooks but no auxiliary power socket in the rear, which is an unfortunate omission. Instead, it's on the near-side front guard in the engine bay.
The barn-style rear doors open wide for easy loading and despite the Troopie's generous ground clearance, the cargo floor isn't too high. There's more storage space elsewhere in the cabin, with pockets in the front doors and a storage box under the dash.
The interior is finished in vinyl with cloth seat trims, Standard appointments include a tilt-adjustable steering column, a hand throttle, tachometer, intermittent front and rear wipers, central locking, and an AM/FM radio-cassette unit with four speakers.
On The Move
Heart and soul of the TroopCarrier RV is its 4.2-litre 1HZ naturally-aspirated six-cylinder diesel engine, which puts out 96kW at 3800rpm and 285Nm at 2200rpm. The unit received some fuel system and cooling upgrades in the transition to the 78 Series, and offers solid, useful power in both on- and off-road situations.
On the open road, the Troopie belies its truck-like appearance with a stable ride. The steering is power-assisted and has a well-weighted, light feel at the wheel, while the handling is surprisingly taut and predictable thanks to the coil front end. Stopping power is also plentiful with bigger brake discs all around and four-piston calipers at the front, however there is no ABS system available.
The engine pulls 2800rpm in top gear at 110km/h and needs a downshift for overtaking but this isn't a problem as the Troopie's five-speed transmission - taken from the 100 Series - is a sweet-shifting unit with a light clutch action. Also on the light side is the accelerator, meaning the hand throttle is an oft-used feature on slow tracks.
The coil-spring suspension at the front of the Troopie makes it a confidence-inspiring drive off-road, while still offering excellent (for this type of vehicle) occupant comfort and suspension travel. With plenty of ground clearance and approach and departure angles of 39° and 26° respectively, the Troopie is capable of tackling most off-road situations, however the leaf springs do sit low which can limit clearance in some situations.
The only place our Troopie struggled was in slick, muddy conditions where the narrow tyres filled up with gunk, severely reducing bite and available grip. Thanks to an errant tree stump, the Toyota became briefly bogged in one mudpatch that the Defender - with traction control working furiously - had sailed through. The Troopie got stuck before the driver could activate the diff locks but even these were of no help once the mud had taken over. The only way out was to perform a snatch recovery. With the Troopie having a pair of robust hooks at the front and a stout chassis member at the rear for securing tow lines, the extraction was conducted with no fuss.
Underbody protection is extensive with bash plates guarding the main and sub fuel tanks and transfer case. Water crossings are made easier with the inclusion of a snorkel air intake as standard, while the alternator and air cleaner are located high enough in the engine bay to stay out of most trouble. The underbonnet area has plenty of room for an auxiliary battery.
Strong Defence
Like the TroopCarrier, the Defender Xtreme evokes by name and nature images of traditional, military-style 4WDs and all the associated robustness and 'go-anywhere' ability these vehicles were famed for.
The Xtreme is also the top-of-the range Defender variant, bristling with high-tech equipment from the impressive Td5 turbo-diesel engine to ABS brakes, electronic traction control and a two-stage throttle.
With these features the Defender Xtreme has a retail price of $41,790. Our test vehicle was also equipped with airconditioning ($2500), taking the price as tested to $44,290.
Inside the Xtreme harks back to an earlier time. The dash and front cabin has a spartan layout that is both functional and a little confusing, and certainly not as easy to get comfortable with as the Toyota's more regular set-up. Old and new style gauges (but no tachometer) blend with a myriad of warning lights for the various vehicle systems, there's a plethora of air vents with old-fashioned sliding controls, efficient airconditioning and even flip-out external vents under the windscreen.
Features include an engine immobiliser, AM/FM radio-cassette unit, power steering, intermittent wipers, low fuel and fuel quality warning lights, a single courtesy light, rear window demister, rubber floor covering and plenty of storage space comprising underseat boxes, map pockets in the front seat backs, a central cubby box and glovebox. However, the Xtreme does without airbags, a hand throttle, auxiliary power socket or the now ubiquitous cupholders.
One area where the Xtreme fails is with its poor ergonomics. The view from the driver's position is good but not as extensive as from the Troopie, especially rearwards, while restricted leg and elbow room, limited seat adjustment and poorly-placed handbrake and gear levers conspire to make the front seat of the Defender an uncomfortable place to be. And the rear seat occupants don't fare much better, lacking even the headrests that front-seaters get, although at least they get their own set of doors.
The Defender boasts a large and useful cargo area which expands further when the rear seat is folded, although some space is lost thanks to the full-length wheel-arch boxes running down each side. Access is also compromised by the single rear door which is not a full-width design.
Externally, the Xtreme is a contemporary incarnation of the traditional and instantly recognisable Land Rover design, with boxy lines, round headlights and aluminium panelwork. The panels are fixed to a heavy-duty separate ladder chassis, which has a stiffened rear cross-member specifically designed to handle large towing loads. Completing the look are flexible guard flares, mudflaps and 16-inch alloy wheels wearing 235/85 BF Goodrich A/T tyres.
Rolling Out
If you can adjust to the crazy ergonomics, the Defender Xtreme is actually quite an enjoyable drive. The key is the excellent Td5 2.5-litre, five-cylinder, direct-injection turbocharged and intercooled diesel engine, which puts out 90kW at 4200rpm and 300Nm at 1950rpm.
The Td5 makes less power than the larger naturally-aspirated and indirectly-injected Toyota diesel but has more torque and gives it earlier in the rev range. Combine this with the Defender's lighter kerb weight (1977kg versus 2205kg) and the performance equation favours the Brit.
From the driver's seat, the motor is reasonably quiet and smooth - on par with the Toyota. The Land Rover's NVH levels are higher than the Troopie's with more wind noise and vibration evident in the cabin.
Swapping cogs on the five-speed transmission is more difficult thanks to the Xtreme's long, truck-like lever and notchy action. One of our crew grew to prefer the Xtreme, although I gave the Troopie top marks for ease of use in this area.
The handling department is where the Defender shines, with minimal body roll apparent and a real feeling of stability in the suspension. Coil springs on live axles all around contribute to the impressive handling, while the power steering is quite good although slightly lacking the easy precision of the TroopCarrier. Braking is good with strong, progressive stopping power aided by the well-modulated four-channel ABS system.
Off-road, the Defender is difficult not to love. Loads of ground clearance, excellent approach and departure angles (50° and 30°), full-time 4WD with a lockable centre diff, a flexible engine and good low-range reduction make it a supremely capable vehicle.
Electronic aids like traction control and the Fast Throttle Control (FTC) two-stage throttle are worthwhile for the improvements they make to driving ease. The FTC uses the Td5's 'drive-by-wire' system to give what is effectively a short-travel throttle in on-road situations and a long-travel throttle when low-range is selected for better control at low speeds in rough terrain.
With open front and rear diffs, the traction control comes in handy in minimum-grip situations - for example, the Xtreme made short and relatively easy work of the mud that claimed the TroopCarrier, although it must be said that the Toyota probably would have got through the muck without trouble had the diff locks been activated sooner rather than later.
The Defender is well-equipped for off-roading with hefty chassis rails and bash plates protecting the underbody, an alternator mounted high in the rear of the engine bay and breather extensions on the gearbox and diffs. However, limited space means an auxiliary battery would be hard to fit.
Debriefing
If you're in the market for a functional, tough, practical 4WD for serious hauling and off-road touring duties, both the TroopCarrier RV and the Defender Xtreme have much to commend them.
The Land Rover is a clear winner on price, being several thousand dollars cheaper than the Toyota, however the Troopie has the edge in ease of use due to its superior ergonomics, cabin comfort and luggage capacity. That said though, the Land Rover does have that crucial extra set of doors. It also tends to grow on you, with more than one driver on our trip warming to the British beast by the end of the test.
Off-road, there's not a lot to separate them. The Toyota may be a part-time 4WD and the Land Rover full-time but they're both willing and able when it comes time to go off the beaten track. If anything, the Defender gains some advantage by having traction control as standard - the diff locks on the Toyota are very useful but you do have to shell out extra for them.
As a day-to-day proposition, I'd go for the TroopCarrier simply because it is a more pleasant and relaxing vehicle to drive in different situations. There's no doubt the Defender has a certain charm, however I'm not sure I'd be prepared to put up with things like the driving position on a long-term basis.
Story by Peter Callaghan, Photos by Kevin Ling, Hugh McLeod & Peter Pap
Toyota LandCruiser TroopCarrier RV
Price as tested: $56,702
Number of Seats: 6
Average Fuel Consumption: 12.8L/100km
Range*: 1361km
Best Points: Rugged and robust, luggage space; off-road ability
Worst Points: Lack of extra side doors
*Range estimate based on fuel tank capacity, test average fuel consumption and a 50km safety margin.
Land Rover Defender Xtreme
Price as tested: $44,290
Number of Seats: 5
Average Fuel Consumption: 10.3L/100km
Range*: 678km
Best Points: Engine, off-road ability, handling, luggage space
Worst Points: Cabin ergonomics, gearshift
*Range estimate based on fuel tank capacity, test average fuel consumption and a 50km safety margin.
I think the price is a major factor, with the 10k you save you can put maxis all round and diff locks and the troopy wouldnt touch it off road, and the majority of your weak driveline issues are elimiated aswell. Matt
well one of the main reasons why the army choose the defender is it is the only 4x4 that will and can be be configured for their requierments
Hmmm... the turbo diesel 5 seater is actually 59990 whereas the defender is actually 47995. However I think AC is optional on the troopy, remote entry and alarm come std on the fender as do alloys, and you can't get TC at any price. And it's 2 doors short. Then there is the issue of leaf rear and independent front :rolleyes: I think the troopy is very expensive for what it is...Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace
I have to say as uncomfortable as a Defender can be, as an overall package it is heaps better than the Toyota troopy or ute. The troopy is way overpriced for what you get. The Defender in my opinion is more comfortable and a better 4x4. The Defender also has 4 doors. The only advantage of the troopy is that there are a lot around for spares. The troopy is also very easy to roll, just ask a friend of mine. Coil springs vs leaf, there is no comparisson. I have spent a lot of time in Toyota Crruiser Utes, troopy's, ambulances and Hilux's and they are the worst 4x4s on the market. The only good troopy's were the real old shape like my old man had.
:D
It comes down to one simple question....
.... Do troopy drivers wave to other troopy drivers ?!!
... Scott
Many of these comments i can understand.
I have been looking after a large fleet of troopys, and some of the new features i find a bit alarming for 4wd use, like the later model one we had that turned out to have aluminuim/alloy? shafts in them......
It makes you wonder, but all jokes aside, the older models of both are still one the road in great numbers, an both have thier quirks, i suppose if you understand them enough, you can make them work for you
I think a lot of the bad points for servicing rovers are the ugly places they put some of the parts, and the prices of the "gin-u wine spares "...toyos do have pretty cheap spares that make you want to change them more regularly!
CraigE no offence but you say some silly stuff mate, Troopy's have live axle coil front NOT independant, "easy to roll" yea if your a moron and don't drive accordingly
Roadkill, alooy tailshafts are used in touring cars and alot of race applications, cop cars aswell even the divvies, but the must be crap
And as for not being able to get traction control, who would of bought factory difflockd on there defender, cause you can get them on your TOJO
I'am by no means a TOJO man BUT please get your facts right before critiscising, one-eyed rover fans are just as bad as one-eyed TOJO fans without the relevant information