Thread: Roberts-Smith

Originally Posted by ChookD2

I have been watching this "case" and this thread.

I spent 15 years in The Australian Army and I am very proud of my service. In this time I gained knowledge of certain "areas" and how they operate, and the personnel they attract.

I also served in an active theatre.

On the comments here, ............ the idiom "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" comes to mind.

I'll say no more.

How about this... when the Australian public asks their career soldiers to go out and represent Australia on the battlefield, the Australian public requires the highest standard of conduct of our soldiers. Australian soldiers are not convicts taken from their cells and thrown into a war as we see Ukraine right now, they are highly trained career soldiers.

The conduct displayed by RS has been shown not to be the standard that the Australian public requires. As a member of the Australian public for 70 something years, I am ashamed of the behaviour and actions that been brought to light.

I heard that the Afghan witnesses had been paid by Channel 9 to provide commentary for their documentary / expose.
If that's true, how could they possibly be considered credible witnesses in the defamation case?

What's most important at this time is that despite what the judge in the defamation case appears to think of Ben Roberts-Smith, and his findings in this civil case;

• He has NOT been charged criminally at this point (though it's probably now more likely he will be)
• It's possible that prosecutors are not confident they can prove the case 'beyond reasonable doubt' (as opposed to the civil standard of "on the balance of probability)
• He has NOT been found guilty of the alleged crimes, either in a criminal or military court.

While people here talk about the need for us to have a high expectation of our soldiers behaviours, it is even more important that we solidly defend the principle of "innocent until proven guilty".

That has not, and may never, occur.

Originally Posted by VladTepes

I heard that the Afghan witnesses had been paid by Channel 9 to provide commentary for their documentary / expose.
If that's true, how could they possibly be considered credible witnesses in the defamation case?

What's most important at this time is that despite what the judge in the defamation case appears to think of Ben Roberts-Smith, and his findings in this civil case;

• He has NOT been charged criminally at this point (though it's probably now more likely he will be)
• It's possible that prosecutors are not confident they can prove the case 'beyond reasonable doubt' (as opposed to the civil standard of "on the balance of probability)
• He has NOT been found guilty of the alleged crimes, either in a criminal or military court.

While people here talk about the need for us to have a high expectation of our soldiers behaviours, it is even more important that we solidly defend the principle of "innocent until proven guilty".

That has not, and may never, occur.

It’s always been guilty until proven innocent……especially once the media get hold of it.

Even more so in the military…….in the first week of my military career our whole intake attended a law session…..we were told in no uncertain terms we would only be told our rights (what ever the phase is they said) if we were guilty, yep went on to say you’ll only be marched into a court room guilty.

Hmmm, I had nine charges read to me, found not guilty on six of them……nothing sweeting Tue matching past em all when you found non guilty. Dumb ****ers.

ok all you military law "keg experts" , firstly how many of you served in a fighting unit of the Royal Australian Army?

Of those of you who did , how many of you were involved in combat?

In your "o groups" , were you repeatedly given rules of engagement?

Did you set up ambushes? How close was the killing ground? I can tell you its extremely close.

Were you ordered not to take prisoners? That entails killing all enemy.

Who gave you your orders? Is your superior officer then responsible for the outcome of your contact , or are you to blame?

Ben Roberts - Smith was a corporal , not an officer who gives orders groups for missions.

Lastly how do you behave when you are pumped full of adrenaline and totally ****ting yourself? Do you stop and think of all the "war crimes" you may be accused of....or do the next thing you think of

Do you know that a fighting soldier is constantly trained and encouraged to carry out the necessary instant/immediate actions that appear in front of him.?

Those of you who have been there will know what I have written.

Those of you haven't....please respect those who have.

Rambling Boy

Served in the Australian Army albeit in Peace Time

Was in the Operational Deployment Force at one time and was trained in ambush techniques.

Used to set up poncho's to see if we had set up effectively - the results were chilling.

Originally Posted by chuck

Rambling Boy

Served in the Australian Army albeit in Peace Time

Was in the Operational Deployment Force at one time and was trained in ambush techniques.

Used to set up poncho's to see if we had set up effectively - the results were chilling.

Do I detect a wry smile & a touch of cynicism here? I suspect I do.

Of course the results would be chilling if said hutchi was not set up effectively.

Could even be a Brass Monkey situation.

Originally Posted by 4bee

Do I detect a wry smile & a touch of cynicism here? I suspect I do.

Of course the results would be chilling if said hutchi was not set up effectively.

Could even be a Brass Monkey situation.

No cynicism

Up until the ODF i was a young signals rigger who only really played with guns heavily supervised on the range.

The ODF required us to have some limited infantry skills, so a real eye opener for a young rigger used to playing with antennas, masts, towers, comms cables etc.

Up until then my biggest risk was falling from height.

Originally Posted by ramblingboy42

ok all you military law "keg experts" , firstly how many of you served in a fighting unit of the Royal Australian Army?

Of those of you who did , how many of you were involved in combat?

In your "o groups" , were you repeatedly given rules of engagement?

Did you set up ambushes? How close was the killing ground? I can tell you its extremely close.

Were you ordered not to take prisoners? That entails killing all enemy.

Who gave you your orders? Is your superior officer then responsible for the outcome of your contact , or are you to blame?

Ben Roberts - Smith was a corporal , not an officer who gives orders groups for missions.

Lastly how do you behave when you are pumped full of adrenaline and totally ****ting yourself? Do you stop and think of all the "war crimes" you may be accused of....or do the next thing you think of

Do you know that a fighting soldier is constantly trained and encouraged to carry out the necessary instant/immediate actions that appear in front of him.?

Those of you who have been there will know what I have written.

Those of you haven't....please respect those who have.

It doesn't matter who here has or has not served. As a nation we cannot tolerate the actions that are being discussed including the failures of the command to be aware of what was happening on the ground and stamp out the disgraceful culture.