Crappy bolts...Part II (With Photos!)

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Originally Posted by isuzurover

Personally I don't consider that as a proper recovery point - it is just an L cut from flat bar - there is no hole to secure the shackle - and stop it sliding away from the bolts - putting more leverage on the joint. However - I am pretty sure the failure occurred because the bolts were not appropriate. I would also be interested in the bolt head pics if you can manage them.

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i'm with you on the first part.

the bolts were probably appropriate for use as a nudge bar, i think you will find, but totally inappropriate for attaching a recovery point..

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Originally Posted by isuzurover

Personally I don't consider that as a proper recovery point - it is just an L cut from flat bar - there is no hole to secure the shackle - and stop it sliding away from the bolts - putting more leverage on the joint. However - I am pretty sure the failure occurred because the bolts were not appropriate. I would also be interested in the bolt head pics if you can manage them.

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How do you know this, you can't see the part - that has the hole in - it's hidden by the tube of the nudge bar.

These recovery points were inspected by driver trainers, and also by another chap who is in this thread.

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Originally Posted by ladas

How do you know this, you can't see the part - that has the hole in - it's hidden by the tube of the nudge bar.

These recovery points were inspected by driver trainers, and also by another chap who is in this thread.

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OK - it may have a hole we can't see - in which case it is more suitable. But even so, it is a very badly designed recovery point - there are a lot of leverage forces since the hole (if it is there) must be a reasonable tangential distance away, and the bracket appears to neck down to its thinnest (and weakest) right where the stress is concentrated. I make no comment about the abilities of the driver trainers - I'm sure they know what they are doing - and usually "practice" recoveries are done under simulated (or easy) conditions - so mI am very surprised the bolts broke. If the people who inspected the recovery pointy are on here though - perhaps they can enlighten us as to what grade/class the bolts were though?

If I was Sam I would be throwing that recovery point away and fitting something more suitable.

Very hard to see in the pic, but those thread marks look to me as though the bolts/bar/bracket assy were loose, which would contribute.

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Originally Posted by ladas

These recovery points were inspected by driver trainers, and also by another chap who is in this thread.

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who obviously took no notice of the bolts holding the thing together.. or it wouldnt have happened, obviously.

but that isnt the part of the issue being discussed just at this time...

i have exactly the same nudge bar on my disco, but the recovery points are separate.

poor design, poor implementation, thankfully no one was hurt, and hopefully the scrutineers will be more aware and armed with new knowledge from here on in....

got ya , I didn't look at the photo properly , so it's an nupgraded version of a recovery for a L/R which bolts on to the plates indicated in the photo.

thanks for clarifying that ladas.

posted this in the other thread talking about this but will put it here as well..

re bolts and bullbars and towbars...


i was discussing this with an ex police automotive engineer / ex coronial inspector just last week and just confirmed it with him again on the phone now.

it is an offence to modify in anyway a towbar or bullbar or its fixings..

it is not recommended that you use any towbar or bullbar as a recovery point

case history suggests that if you do so you will be apportioned the majority of any blame in an enquiry or inquest involving such equipment.

towbars and bullbars must be fitted to a vehicle using the kit supplied by the manufacturer using the method documented by the manufacturer.

most towbars and bullbars use grade 8 bolts but many still dont as they employ shear bolts.

some towbars and bullbars are manufactured with shear points as well as shear bolts in the fitting kits..

so there you go...

straight from the informed horses mouth.

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it is an offence to modify in anyway a towbar or bullbar or its fixings..

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just curious but!
how is this the case when you can make your own bullbar as long as it complies with australian standards (that came from the rta modifications man himself)

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Originally Posted by dullbird

just curious but!
how is this the case when you can make your own bullbar as long as it complies with australian standards (that came from the rta modifications man himself)

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How do you know if it complys as to comply with Aust standards it has to be tested by engineers and with rollbars, bullbars and towbars it used to (about 10 years ago) be a stress test which stressed several of the same componant in several different ways exceeding the loads that the componant is specified for.

A bloke from the RTA can only say if it complies if he can read the tag which should be fixed to the compnant.

Or did you mean he is an accredited mechanical engineer?

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Originally Posted by mcrover

How do you know if it complys as to comply with Aust standards it has to be tested by engineers and with rollbars, bullbars and towbars it used to (about 10 years ago) be a stress test which stressed several of the same componant in several different ways exceeding the loads that the componant is specified for.

A bloke from the RTA can only say if it complies if he can read the tag which should be fixed to the compnant.

Or did you mean he is an accredited mechanical engineer?

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mate i dont know the awnser i'm quoting you what the guy who writes alls the modification rules said when somone asing him about making there own custom bullbar