What a pity the defence forces dont take more landys these days, they would be excellent to pick up surplus later down the track
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What a pity the defence forces dont take more landys these days, they would be excellent to pick up surplus later down the track
Solmanic said
Im not so sure about that on the new JK Wrangler - bigger Dana Diffs and factory lockers.Quote:
From what I've seen too, the components are a notch below the design durability of the Defender, again due to the recreation bias.
... isnt it compulsory to replace landy axles as soon as the words "diff locker" are mentioned?
Has anyone actually examined a new Wrangler 4 door up close?
I have. I was interested in how they could build a similar car the the Defender for much less money.
I found one at my local Jeep dealer up on ramps. So I climbed underneath and poked around. Here's what I found:
1. The chassis is very very thin. It's the same thickness your average garden trailer is.
2. The axles are very skinny.
3. There are only drum brakes on the rear
4. There is no gearbox protection underneath
Nonetheless, it does have airbags and the interior seems to be of the same quality as the Defender - if maybe more ergonomic.
After poking around, I decided that the Defender is still very much the utilitarian vehicle whilst the Wrangler is very much a lifestyle vehicle that's cooler than the mum-mobiles getting around. The two vehicles don't really compete.
Further, the Defender continues to look like a true bargain at $48k for the new model compared to the $53k for the new Land Cruiser 5 door. If you want cloth seats, carpet, a/c and front foglights, you need to spend $58k. And you still only get a leaf sprung rear, part time 4wd and a steel body. Difflocks are even more.
The patrol is the only other vehicle to compare the Defender too, and that is also very expensive.
Had a glance at the Wrangler yesterday. The comments re protection, axles etc apply to the base model. The top-of-the-range model has an improved drivetrain including lockers - at almost $10,000 more than the base model :o
Can't say I ogled the chassis, but it's not rated for the same towing or carrying weight so stands to reason it would be less strong. Might not be less durable, though, provided it's properly engineered.
The Wrangler is a vehicle that, like the Defender, can trace it's design directly to the WWII Jeep. It has moved with the times, which necissarily includes a more "recreational" slant, and the same can be said for the Defender. Where it differs, however, is in the continued value of some of the simplicity of design and flexibility of roofing/seating/doors etc which seems to elude the evolving Land Rovers.
If Jeep can go to the trouble of extending the wheelbase of the Wrangler after 60 years of civilian Jeep design, then there must be a market for vehicles something like the Defender. The question is how Land Rover can capitilise on it.
The only thing worth noting about the new Jeep or any other 4wd for that matter is that it is either a Defender or not. If it is...good. If it is not...just ignore it :mad:
I reckon the Wrangler is significantly further removed from the Willy's Jeep than the Defender is from the Series 1. The current models rely on merely a cosmetic homage to the original to encourage people to believe they are related. Crikey, they were orignally Fords and now they're Chryslers.Quote:
Originally Posted by scrambler
Weve owned 2 Jeeps, first one (XJ)was good but not great and not greatly reliable with a tiny radiator but a big 6cyl engine and no 1st gear in the trans so bugger all engine breaking down hill.
Second was (ZG) crap, VC transfer case was crap, ECU was crap, Im only about 5' 10" or so and I used to hit my head on the roof and a number of other crappy problems.
Nothing Jeep is without it's problems and the new one will be no different in 10 years time and your right, it is weird looking.
The lockers I think are Elockers that are a great idea and with the Dana's will probably be the best bits of the car but after that, it's still a Jeep.
I supose everything is worth a look at and if you were looking for an off the shelf new car for 4wding for about 3 to 5 years over the lease period then i'd say consider it but not if you were keeping it for decades.
No, they were originally a Willys (the Ford GPW stands for General Purpose-Willys ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by solmanic
who were then bought by Kaiser in the fifties and sixties, then AMC through the seventies and eighties (with a brief dalliance with Renault, who designed the Quad link front end), then Jeep was cherry picked out of the smoking wreck that AMC became by Chrysler (funnily enough they were the only profitable division, sound familiar ?)
Land Rovers ownership history is just as as varied.
Originally owned by Rover, then Leyland, then BaE (British AeroSpace), BMW and now Ford.
and as for strength, my old CJ from the seventies had a Dana 44 rear end, Dana 20 t/case (could easily handle 3-400HP) and beefy AMC six with steel bash plates under everything, sump, g/box-t/case and fuel tank. The Warner T14a g/box was weak, but no worse than an R380, and the massive T98 out of the full size Jeeps with granny first (6.98:1) bolted straight in with only tail shaft mods.
Even the D30 front end was probably stronger than a Rover one.
and ever checked what gauge steel Landy use on the chassis ? it's pretty thin too, something like 2mm ;)
There was a Jeep ute design concept that débuted a week or so back based on a military Wrangler that really looked the goods.