Legal obligations of some one leading a drive.

Its always worried me this one. Within a formal club, you should be ok. When I enquired within LROC for example, the club's insurance would cover a trip leader as long as club policies & procedures were being followed.

Forum trips are a different kettle of fish. You've got less control, people turning up without enough experience, no recovery points etc etc. You don't have the power to turn them away.

A runaway car doing a stall recovery could do some serious damage. Its only a matter of time I suspect before someone sues.

Regards
Max P

I would like to think it wouldn't happen here but you never know. How about we generate a standard disclaimer and then put it at the start of each trip thread. Clubs are covered but with the forum we don't have that legal protection.
It should be if you choose to go then you go at your own risk.
People should also volunteer their ability and ask for advice when they don't know.
What I like abut the forum trips is the chance to get out and also the fact that people are willing to help the less experienced people on the trips. My first trip out was at Ace's and my 3rd time off road. Lot's of fun for a newbie.

When I used to run Green lane runs for one of the Landrover clubs in the uk, we used to have a form which everyone signed, to say they agreed that they were participating at their own risk etc. It also served the added perpose to prove which vehicles used particular tracks when having to present evidence of use against track closures.

I think you also had to put down your ability too, whether it be beginner (under 6 trips) intermediate (6 - 15 trips and a training session) and experienced (16+ trips).

This way the trip leader knows the ability of the group behind him, before tackling any tracks.

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Originally Posted by gorby

I think you also had to put down your ability too, whether it be beginner (under 6 trips) intermediate (6 - 15 trips and a training session) and experienced (16+ trips).

This way the trip leader knows the ability of the group behind him, before tackling any tracks.

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It's exactly this approach that raises the legal issues.

If the person in front doesn't know the capacities of those behind (because they just happened to be travelling the same road) there's no liability because there is no duty of care. Everyone is on their own and if the people behind get overconfident seeing someone get through a difficult section they are on their own with the damage they do to themeselves. BUT if the leader knows they are inexperienced, and choses tracks based on that knowledge, and choses a track that results in damage to the people following and/or their vehicle, there may be negligence because there was a duty of care - he (or she) was LEADING them.

IMHO the better way of addressing this issue in this sort of context is to indicate that you are going to be in a certain place a a certain time and engaging in certain activities. If other people chose to be in the same place at the same time, let them know that they are welcome to follow you, or not, a their own risk either way.

If there is going to be a "trip leader" there should be a club, insurance etc.

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Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies

Can I ask:

1. who owned the gum tree?...My mate
2. on who's property was the excavator?...My mates
3. was the excavator owner paying the dead welder before the accident?...only a beer
4. did the excavator damage the tree before breaking down?...Nothing to do with it
5. what insurances were held or supposed to be held? Public Liability or Workers Compensation?...Just 2 beer drinkers, one doing a favour for the other

In most cases where insurance is involved/or should have been covered. The injured has to name the property owner as a matter of course.

Diana

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She's pushing that he was an employer, when he was just a mate, the point is, their is no chance she'll win, but he's still out of pocket nonetheless:mad:

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Originally Posted by dobbo

So if we get a "don't follow me you won't make it" sticker would that be classified as a OH&S sign therefore aboloshing all legal rights to get sued because they have read a clearly marked sign on the back of your car that they have chosen to ignore? It works in govn depts

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But it still doesn't stop someone trying to sue you for some ridiculous reason and inconveniencing you

People are retarded and getting way to americanised:mad:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scrambler

It's exactly this approach that raises the legal issues.

If the person in front doesn't know the capacities of those behind (because they just happened to be travelling the same road) there's no liability because there is no duty of care. Everyone is on their own and if the people behind get overconfident seeing someone get through a difficult section they are on their own with the damage they do to themeselves. BUT if the leader knows they are inexperienced, and choses tracks based on that knowledge, and choses a track that results in damage to the people following and/or their vehicle, there may be negligence because there was a duty of care - he (or she) was LEADING them.

IMHO the better way of addressing this issue in this sort of context is to indicate that you are going to be in a certain place a a certain time and engaging in certain activities. If other people chose to be in the same place at the same time, let them know that they are welcome to follow you, or not, a their own risk either way.

If there is going to be a "trip leader" there should be a club, insurance etc.

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Fair point but if they also signed the disclaimer stating they were doing so at their own risk. This would put most people off from suing.