G'day 460cixy
How about we keep the conversation civilised :mad: What John said was that he objected to paying $100+ Per Hour for mechanical work NOT what YOU get Paid
Uncle Ho
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G'day 460cixy
How about we keep the conversation civilised :mad: What John said was that he objected to paying $100+ Per Hour for mechanical work NOT what YOU get Paid
Uncle Ho
I can understand that you don't like paying for what is done, but surely you realise that without the extra costs loaded onto the labour charge the business would not exist, then you couldn't get anything done at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnE
What else is going to pay for the mortgage, etc? Maybe the invoice should be broken down even further?
Labour $x
Mortgage $x
Power / Water $x
Office Staff $x
Equipment Costs $x
Government Costs $x
Clearly that is completely unworkable.
I think your complaint isn't well thought through (no offence intended, despite your comments earlier about mechanic types having tickets on ourselves and not being that good, which was offensive).
He did make a comment about mechanic types having tickets on themselves and being not that good. I think 460cixy has a fair grievance.Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleHo
This topic certainly gets heated doesn't it?
IMHO the big issue for workshops is unapplied time.
The normal ebb and flow of work means an owner can never bill all billable hours and unfortunately employed mechanics seem not to have the same incentive as the owner to work quickly .
I have a mate called Dennis unpronounceable, who owned a small shop in Mona vale specialising in Jaguar and Land Rover.
He employed mechanics from time to time , but always reverted to sole operator.
He had several problems
1 His wife worked part time, so he spent a lot of time on the phone, answering crap calls. He was between a rock and hard place as if he put them on a messagebank he may lose customers.
2 Because he was an old Jag and Rover specialist, he had an array of "codgers" hanging around wanting a chat about the glories. I suppose I was one of them from time to time.
3 Its hard to cost a job on old jags etc, and Dennis being a great guy was forever giving time away, when the old Jag turned out to be a heap of crap.
So Dennis ended up retiring at 40 something because he also had a crook heart. He was lucky/skilled in that he owned his workshop which he was able to sell for a lot of money.
Does any of this sound familiar?
Those are my observations from an interested customer point of view, and 20 years in the motor industry.
One of the reasons that dealers can be more profitable is that scale allows them to schedule work better, and that is why your car will often get what is called a "suntan" at a dealer. And the franchise allows them to charge outrageous prices, as many/most people a scared of losing warranty, which of course now goes for years .
I think john is getting at the rather unusual practice in mechanical circles (when compared to other trades/industries) of charging for 'labour' on an invoice for what is obviously not just 'labour' but includes business costs like rent, depreciation etc etc... why not itemise it properly?
Because it is not practical to do that. I am sure that doing that would also push the prices up (more office time spent).Quote:
Originally Posted by EchiDna
We have a consumables charge on our invoice and I am sometimes asked what it covers. I tell people it covers incidental costs that can't realistically be charged individually - hand cleaner, seat covers, paper and ink for invoices, waste oil removal, etc.
Can you show me an example of an invoice where all the things you mentioned are charged for individually? Rent, depreciation, etc? I have never seen an invoice like that from anyone.
BigJon,
I've got a 28 page invoice from when my son was in intensive care... we paid rent of his bed by the day, plus rent of every piece of medical equipment he used by the day, we even paid room cleaning, bed changing, cotton wool balls, gloves and hand cleaner by the item! overall it was over 1200 individual items used... confusing to read, but realistic...
the above is an over the top example, but if you are a big dealer/franchise, there must be a stock control IT system in use, so (in theory) every client will have to have every item checked out of the inventory for usage (eg parts) but it should also cover things like paper seat covers that every client will use. Oils and fluids will also have a price per litre for both buying new and disposal of old, so this can be done by the litre... so when they get checked out of the inventory for use, you can simply use this data on the invoice - otherwise how do you maintain an appropriate level of stock?
If it was my business, I'd probably want to know how many hours a day my hoist (for example) is being used, as this can help you to see where there is a bottleneck in the line and in turn helps to let you know when you need to add another hoist into the system to cater to the business needs. I can also use this info on a client's invoice - use of hoist @ $15/hour (or whatever)
Of course this only applies to the big guys...
Doesn't apply here then...Quote:
Originally Posted by EchiDna
How much time do you think it would have taken to produce the invoice you mentioned?
About 30 seconds spat out of the printer ;) The system will simply have been told how long the stay was, what ward of the hospital, and it will have fabricated the rest, with the exception of items like bags of fluid (probably barcode scan stock control), which will have been entered for the stock control end and simply recycled for the invoice (As EchiDna suggests).
Which is all well and good if you have a system with all those quantities, etc already inputted. It is just not workable for most businesses, particularly a mechanical workshop, which was what the original discussion was about.Quote:
Originally Posted by scrambler