Why Do We Have Crashes

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Originally Posted by Jeff

I've always been annoyed at the way drivers are grouped. Being a young male with a good driving record and millions of kilometres behind me I find it infuriating that I have always been classed as a greater accident than a female of similar age or someone older.
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Jeff
:rocket:

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That's the way the world works, Jeff. You might just have to get used to it.
Insurance companies are in the business of making money. Their research tells them that young drivers as a group, particularly young males are more likely to be involved in accidents than the general population. Look at the info below from the RTA site.
I know you hate the feeling that as a safe driver you are having to pay too much for your insurance, but don't you think that 30 -50 year old driver as a group would object to paying the same premium as an 18 year old who on average is 4 times as likely to have an accident?
It may seem tough, but it is just as tough on any safe driver regardless of their age that their first premium is the same as an idiot of the same age. (Of course their no-claim bonus will make things a bit fairer after that.)
It's just as unfair that every sports car driver pays a higher premium no matter how safe and cautious they are on the roads simply because they are driving that sort of car.
There are always people who are different from the norm for their group. Just as there are some very safe drivers of sports cars and there are some Volvo drivers who are an accident waiting to happen, there are young driver who are safe and experienced drivers whose years of experience seem to have taught them nothing.
Actually statistics are collected on people grouped in quite a range of ways: by gender, by type of vehicle, by time of day or night, even by suburb.
No point in getting annoyed. or infuriated.
The fact is that as a group young males are more likely to be involved in an accident that other people.
You can be proud of the fact that you are different from the norm for your group but that is about as much as you can do.

RTA stats:

A 17 year old driver with a P1 licence is four times more likely to be involved in a fatal crash than a driver over 26 years. Driving at night (after 10pm) and carrying passengers also increases the crash risk significantly.
The biggest killer of young drivers is speeding and around 80 percent of young speed fatalities are male.
Young drivers are over-represented in all fatal crashes, including drink driving and fatigue. Despite making up only 15 percent of drivers, young drivers represent around 36 percent of annual road fatalities.

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Originally Posted by 4bee

Who of us haven't noticed the bad driving by "Driving Instructors" ;)when they are in the signed car by themselves?

Sometimes I think it's the blind leading the blind, especially when they allow bad driving manners & habits to develop when they have pupils.

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This could start a whole new thread...

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Originally Posted by vnx205

That's the way the world works, Jeff. You might just have to get used to it.
Insurance companies are in the business of making money. Their research tells them that young drivers as a group, particularly young males are more likely to be involved in accidents than the general population. Look at the info below from the RTA site.
Actually statistics are collected on people grouped in quite a range of ways: by gender, by type of vehicle, by time of day or night, even by suburb.
No point in getting annoyed. or infuriated.
The fact is that as a group young males are more likely to be involved in an accident that other people.
.[/COLOR]

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I think you miss my point about how drivers could be grouped. You are still perpetuating the RTA and the medias hate campaign against young males. Nobody has yet compiled statistics about fat drivers or tall drivers, and nobody has even mentioned Chinese taxi drivers.

I may be opinionated because I have been run over twice by old people who should not have been driving and my then pregnant wife was also hit by an old lady who claimed "I didn't see her".

And don't tell me not to get angry.


Jeff

:rocket:

[QUOTE=joel_nicholson;656579]Most of you have no idea how demoralising it is... for young people like myself who work damn hard for a living, strive to succeed in everything that we do, and consistently do the right and good thing for other people... to be then accused of being "inexperienced bloody P plate hoons responsible for every road fatality since sliced bread".

QUOTE]

Settle down Joel; a couple of points....

1) We're a bit older than you, that gives us the right to whinge about the younger generation, it's an envy thing that you have no hope of understanding till 2040 (+/- 12 months)

2) Have you read ALL the comments? I don't think anyone has said it's all down to young people. I certainly don't believe it is. There are good and bad in all walks of life, be it religion, race, drivers or age groups.

3) If you were walking past a bank as it was being robbed would you notice the person(s) robbing the bank, or the dozens of people not robbing the bank?

When I started this thread I was merely wondering if other peoples (all ages) observations were similiar to mine, or was I just becoming a whining old man. I have enjoyed sharing all the opinions, some of which I have agreed with, others not. Truck drivers have taken a bit of flak, but as a truck driver, I have not taken any of it personally as I know I take my professional & recreational driving seriously. I accept that there are some cowboys amongst my rank, but as with all groups, don't judge all by the actions of a few.

I intended neither you nor your age group any offence. You appear to be a stand out amongst your peers, and I congratulate you for that. Finally Joel, don't take anything too seriously, life is riddled with unfairness, get used to it you have 50-60 years to go so stand by YOUR values, regardless of what others may do or say. To thynne own self be true. I wish you well & look forward to more of your opinions. Ian

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Originally Posted by Phred

remove bull-bar (they make drivers agressive)

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IN YOUR DREAMS! Mate hit a cute little wallaby, no taller than 2', $12500 damage, add the down time then try to come up with the repayments on a half million dollar investment.

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Originally Posted by BigJon

If you drive appropriately for the conditions there shouldn't be any difference as to whether you are in a front wheel drive, rear wheel drive or all wheel drive.

I think the majority of drivers wouldn't know or care what wheels were driven in their vehicles.

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Untill the conditions change and you are required to respond.

My cousin's wife was driving a known road at the speed limit in dry weather. They encountered what was possibly a diesel slick or similar on a corner. They began to slide.
Later, she said to me that she had done all the right things she had been taught (by her Dad?). She even turned into the slide. The thing is she also lifted off.
It was a FWD and so it continued to loop out. They crossed the road & hit the oncoming vehicle. Very hard. Weeks in hospital for all. My cousin came very close to the last hoorah.

Everyone loses control of a vehicle on occasion, big or small. Think about that.
The ability to regain control is the difference.

I agree that most would not know (or care) but it pays to always make the effort to show or explain to them if you have the opportunity. I would like my partner to stick around, along with the rest of my friends and family she may be chauferring:).
MC's or HV's aside, for just a basic car licence, all that is required is to steer it, brake it and park it, "you'll pick the rest up as you go" attitude.
Some don't pick it up and some don't get the chance.

I live rural... And spend a lot of time on the highways and country roads...

We're always on the road with lots of cars, vans, Light trucks, Semi, B Dbls and Road trains...

The least agressive, and most helpful drivers are the truckies...

In the 4wd they're more than pleasant to chat with and often signal you through.

Mind you, I'm on the road so often a lot of them recognise me and we have mutual respect, on hills I give them run up before me if passing something like a caravan towing nomad... Then I pass...

This gains a lot of respect and appreciation from the long haul guys.

Car drivers on the other hand (often city drivers - stickers give it away) are rude, impatient and dangerous...

Only last week I had a BA falcon coming head on at 120+... There was an overtaking lane for him 500mtrs behind me :(

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Originally Posted by Jeff

I think you miss my point about how drivers could be grouped. You are still perpetuating the RTA and the medias hate campaign against young males. Nobody has yet compiled statistics about fat drivers or tall drivers, and nobody has even mentioned Chinese taxi drivers.

I may be opinionated because I have been run over twice by old people who should not have been driving and my then pregnant wife was also hit by an old lady who claimed "I didn't see her".

And don't tell me not to get angry.

Jeff

:rocket:

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There is a subtle but important difference between telling someone there is no point in getting angry (or annoyed or infuriated) and telling them not to get angry.
You are perfectly free to get as angry as you like. It's just that I don't think it will make any difference.

I think I understand your point about how drivers could be grouped according to other factors such as height, eye colour, whether or not they were breast fed as a baby, whether they were born by cesaerian section, whether they were spoilt as a child and so on.
All very well in theory, but surely not very practical.
You are right that people could be grouped that way, but the evidence suggests that the results would be not statistically reliable or significant.
I think you would be surprised at the way researchers have grouped people to look for patterns.
The fact is that gender and age have shown up much more significant patterns than other factors.

Drivers under 25 make up 15% of drivers and are involved in 36% of the accidents. Do you really think there is any way you could group people to create a group with such a record. (Apart from the over 64s. They have a similar record.)

How do you believe insurance premiums should be calculated and where do you think road safety campaigns should be targetted?

Drivers over 85 have to have annual driving tests. Some of them think that is unfair because they have never had an accident. Do you agree with them?

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Originally Posted by tombraider

I live rural... And spend a lot of time on the highways and country roads...

We're always on the road with lots of cars, vans, Light trucks, Semi, B Dbls and Road trains...

The least agressive, and most helpful drivers are the truckies...

In the 4wd they're more than pleasant to chat with and often signal you through.

Mind you, I'm on the road so often a lot of them recognise me and we have mutual respect, on hills I give them run up before me if passing something like a caravan towing nomad... Then I pass...
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Before I did a trip through NT and WA I was told horror stories about road trains and read about how careful you need to be passing or overtaking them.

My experience was just the opposite. I had no problem at all with road trains. That was partly because of the way I dealt with them and partly because of the commonsense and courtesy of the road train drivers.

On dirt roads I could see them coming from some distance away, so I simple pulled well off the road and waited for the dust to settle.

On sealed highways, I had no problem overtaking them, they were all driving faster than I was.

It was the way that they overtook me that impressed me. It wasn't really an option for me to pull off the road. I worked on the principle that as long as my behaviour was predictable and I didn't suddenly slow down to force them to overtake, they would be able to choose their moment to overtake.

It all seemed to work quite smoothly. They would gradually gain on me and if the road ahead was not clear, they would slowly drop back and then gain on me again to get momentum to overtake when the road was clear. That let them choose their moment to overtake.

I assumed that as the road train drivers didn't tailgate me or indicate in any way that they disapproved of my behaviour that this was the way to handle the situation. I'm sure the truck drivers on the forum will put me right if I am mistaken.

The important thing is that the road train drivers were careful, considerate and safe; the opposite of what I had been led to expect.

I have no way of knowing whether the drivers I encountered were typical of the vast majority of road train drivers or the exception. I like to think they were typical.

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Originally Posted by Bulldog

By driving in all conditions for 120 hours or more with their parents for a few years before doing a decent number of paid lessons .

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Getting 120 hours of driving experience being told what to do by someone who is more than likely a bad driver themselves :eek:.