Why Do We Have Crashes

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Originally Posted by Ian

I had a goose bust his ar*e to overtake me ,over double lines only to lock the rear wheels of his Cruiser to turn into the servo infront of me, luckily I have ABS & nothing oncoming or 42 tonne would have run right over him. A grade 3 graduate would know you can t stop a truck from 80k in 20 feet. Obviously his attitude was "#$@* you I m going here!" He was very fortunate I was on the Bruce Hwy, a couple of hours later I had 3 trailers & couldn t & wouldn t have missed him. Then the headlines would have read "Truck slams into car"

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Unfortunately Ian that is all to common and usually the papers report it as the trucks fault

Blythe

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Originally Posted by 100I

Untill the conditions change and you are required to respond.

My cousin's wife was driving a known road at the speed limit in dry weather. They encountered what was possibly a diesel slick or similar on a corner. They began to slide.
Later, she said to me that she had done all the right things she had been taught (by her Dad?). She even turned into the slide. The thing is she also lifted off.
It was a FWD and so it continued to loop out. They crossed the road & hit the oncoming vehicle. Very hard. Weeks in hospital for all. My cousin came very close to the last hoorah.

Everyone loses control of a vehicle on occasion, big or small. Think about that.
The ability to regain control is the difference.
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You shouldn't "turn into a slide".

You should keep the front wheels pointed where you want the vehicle to go. There is a difference.

If you do "lose control" then you shuold brake and brake hard. If an impact is imminent, surely you want it to be at the slowest speed possible.

For the average driver, I am sure regaining control is more by chance than by choice. I would like to think that the people frequenting a forum such as this are not average drivers.
Generally speaking we are enthusiasts, therefore we take more pride in how we drive and what skills we have.

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Originally Posted by vnx205

Before I did a trip through NT and WA I was told horror stories about road trains and read about how careful you need to be passing or overtaking them.

My experience was just the opposite. I had no problem at all with road trains. That was partly because of the way I dealt with them and partly because of the commonsense and courtesy of the road train drivers.

On dirt roads I could see them coming from some distance away, so I simple pulled well off the road and waited for the dust to settle.

On sealed highways, I had no problem overtaking them, they were all driving faster than I was.

It was the way that they overtook me that impressed me. It wasn't really an option for me to pull off the road. I worked on the principle that as long as my behaviour was predictable and I didn't suddenly slow down to force them to overtake, they would be able to choose their moment to overtake.

It all seemed to work quite smoothly. They would gradually gain on me and if the road ahead was not clear, they would slowly drop back and then gain on me again to get momentum to overtake when the road was clear. That let them choose their moment to overtake.

I assumed that as the road train drivers didn't tailgate me or indicate in any way that they disapproved of my behaviour that this was the way to handle the situation. I'm sure the truck drivers on the forum will put me right if I am mistaken.

The important thing is that the road train drivers were careful, considerate and safe; the opposite of what I had been led to expect.

I have no way of knowing whether the drivers I encountered were typical of the vast majority of road train drivers or the exception. I like to think they were typical.

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Yes you did see typical truck drivers, I have lived in the north of Australia for 30 years now and can quite confidently say that the truck drivers in the north are the safest and most curtious drivers on the road bar none - including myself in the bar none as sometime I do some dumb things

Blythe

The biggest problem was quite a few years ago before the Stuart Highway was sealed south of the NT border and the railway was the original Ghan route through Oodnadatta.

The Stuart Hwy was truck sized corruates, road-trains were frequent and much slower than they are today.

They sat on the crown of the road and didn't move unless there was another road train coming the other direction. The last of the three trailer and dog combinations would wander several metres each side of the crown of the road. When you came up behind them particularly at night, as you inevitably did in those days, the first thing you noticed was that you were in a dust storm and occasionally the rear of the trailer would just become visible in the gloom seconds before you hit it.

The only way to get out of the dust was to go out to the far edge of the road and risk being hit by something coming the other way before you got out of the dust. It was often easier and safer to overtake on the near side although quite illegal.

These days the main roads are sealed and the prime movers significantly more powerful and safer. Particularly when they are using B doubles or triples instead of the less safe trailer and dog combinations.

Diana

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Originally Posted by BigJon

You shouldn't "turn into a slide".

You should keep the front wheels pointed where you want the vehicle to go. There is a difference.

If you do "lose control" then you shuold brake and brake hard. If an impact is imminent, surely you want it to be at the slowest speed possible.

For the average driver, I am sure regaining control is more by chance than by choice. I would like to think that the people frequenting a forum such as this are not average drivers.
Generally speaking we are enthusiasts, therefore we take more pride in how we drive and what skills we have.

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Spot on, "turn into the skid" is old terminology and not specific, but then it's not something that can be learned from a textbook (or a forum for that matter!), of course it needs to be demonstrated hands on, and practiced. Those were her words to me, as I say, presumeably taught by her father.

My point was, the driveline layout does make a difference to driving style.

Yes, if you've had a lose and I mean a real lose then the best thing to do is wash off speed, but there is a window of opportunity between beginning to lose traction and losing control.
Braking alone is obviously not neccesarily the answer to all situations as attempting to brake can unsettle the vehicle further.
But I'm sure you have been there done that;).

Jon, you seem to know what you are doing, but we are discussing the driving population at large, and the sad fact that the vast majority of drivers on Australian roads lack the skills to recognise and react to adverse conditions or situations. I already said, this is because it is simply not taught or encouraged as part of the licencing program:(.

A forum of enthusiasts means nothing to me, enthusiasm doesn't equate to skill, look at the proportion of younger drivers in crash statistics as a perfect example (Joel etc., I don't say this to upset you further).
There may be many good drivers here or any other club or forum or Country Women's Association, but I wouldn't presume so.

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Originally Posted by 100I

the driveline layout does make a difference to driving style.

the sad fact that the vast majority of drivers on Australian roads lack the skills to recognise and react to adverse conditions or situations. I already said, this is because it is simply not taught or encouraged as part of the licencing program:(.

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Sometimes in an emergency, the majority of the time it won't.

I couldn't agree more!

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Originally Posted by 100I

or Country Women's Association, but I wouldn't presume so.

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I can't see how the CWA (and what a wonderful organisation it is!) comes into a discussion regarding the driving skills (or lack thereof) of members of a forum relating directly to motor vehicles, Land Rovers in particular.

I also draw a distinction between "Enthusiasts" and "enthusiasm".

Mind you, I do agree with the vast majority of your sentiments regarding driving and I am certainly not trying to start fires, metaphorically speaking :D.

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Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies

The biggest problem was quite a few years ago before the Stuart Highway was sealed south of the NT border and the railway was the original Ghan route through Oodnadatta.

The Stuart Hwy was truck sized corruates, road-trains were frequent and much slower than they are today.

They sat on the crown of the road and didn't move unless there was another road train coming the other direction. The last of the three trailer and dog combinations would wander several metres each side of the crown of the road. When you came up behind them particularly at night, as you inevitably did in those days, the first thing you noticed was that you were in a dust storm and occasionally the rear of the trailer would just become visible in the gloom seconds before you hit it.

The only way to get out of the dust was to go out to the far edge of the road and risk being hit by something coming the other way before you got out of the dust. It was often easier and safer to overtake on the near side although quite illegal.

These days the main roads are sealed and the prime movers significantly more powerful and safer. Particularly when they are using B doubles or triples instead of the less safe trailer and dog combinations.

Diana

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I can see why that would have been a problem.

I think my solution to that might have been to pull up, boil the billy and hope another road train didn't come past just before I started off again.

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Originally Posted by BigJon

I can't see how the CWA (and what a wonderful organisation it is!) comes into a discussion regarding the driving skills (or lack thereof) of members of a forum relating directly to motor vehicles, Land Rovers in particular.

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:D:D Like that one?

I'm not trying to poke anyone in the ribs either, certainly not you, I just responded to your post/comment along the lines that 'most people don't know or care'; it's time they did.

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Originally Posted by BigJon

I also draw a distinction between "Enthusiasts" and "enthusiasm".

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You aroused my curiousity about it's exact meaning sooooo.....
:D Look what I lifted from Wiki Enthusiasm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Enthusiasm (Ancient Greek: ἐνθουσιασμός enthousiasmos) originally meant inspiration or possession by a divine afflatus or by the presence of a god. Johnson's Dictionary, the first comprehensive dictionary of the English language, divines enthusiasm as "a vain belief of private revelation; a vain confidence of divine favour or communication." In current English vernacular the word simply means intense enjoyment, interest, or approval.
Contents

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• <LI class=toclevel-1>1 Historical usage <LI class=toclevel-1>2 Modern usage <LI class=toclevel-1>3 Further reading
• 4 External links

[edit] Historical usage

Enthusiasm (ἐνθουσιασμός) root - en-theos = in God. An enthusiast is a person inspired by god. *see: Biblical inspiration - (inspiration Greek - θεοπνευστος - Theopneustos = literally God breathed) When the early Christians would see someone convert to Christianity there was this overwhelming joy that followed the gift of Salvation but they had a problem there was no word to describe this feeling so they combined the two words (in God) creating the word (entheos) from which we get the English word Enthusiasm.
Its uses are confined to a belief in religious inspiration, or to intense religious fervour or emotion. Thus a Syrian sect of the 4th century was known as the Enthusiasts. They believed that by perpetual prayer, ascetic practices and contemplation, man could become [inspired] by the Holy Spirit, in spite of the ruling evil spirit, which the fall had given to him. From their belief in the efficacy of prayer, they were also known as Euchites. Several Protestant sects of the 16th and 17th centuries were called enthusiastic. During the years immediately following the Glorious Revolution, "enthusiasm" was a British pejorative term for advocacy of any political or religious cause in public. Such "enthusiasm" was seen in the time around 1700 as the cause of the previous century's English Civil War and its attendant atrocities, and thus it was an absolute social sin to remind others of the war by engaging in enthusiasm. The Royal Society bylaws stipulated that any person discussing religion or politics at a Society meeting was to be summarily ejected for being an "enthusiast."[citation needed] During the 18th century, popular Methodists such as John Wesley or George Whitefield were accused of blind enthusiasm (i.e. fanaticism).

All very 'Blues Brothers':).

I have to Mod my Landie, I'm on a mission from God...