Thread: Why Do We Have Crashes

I believe in the over powered car theory, seeing a pimply faced 16 year old kid behind the wheel of something like a REX or even an old VN Commodore which is a spritely bit of kit is madness. My sons formal just recently, watching the cars there and seeing the amount of turboed rice burners with tyres no thicker then a bike tube, fully sicked up with P plates, they were everywhere, seats wound back so far they had to use the tips of there fingers to steer let alone see over the dash, the older guys doing the Harley guards and the classic machines were well behaved, but these young fellas were screaming around everywhere with there fart valves going off and doof doof music everywhere, must be so hard trying to stay cool these days infront of your mates. Cars sure are a big part of it, cars and attitude dont mix.

My first car was an old HR with a 161 and a Powerglide, wouldnt pull a greasy stick out a dead dogs bum

Somebody said "what's it going to take?"
I don't know the answer but Im leaning towards making it harder for kids to get on the road these days.

News radio this morning reports a 30 day veteran P Plater in Balgowlah doing 170km/hr in an 80 zone. How do you legislate or educate for that.

Stupid kids, over-powered cars, mobile phones, thumping stereos and 3 or 4 fellow muppets in the car - and why are we surprised when it ends badly.

A lot of the posts here support my theory about why injuries and deaths have not decreased as much as might be expected given how much safer modern cars are.
Actually it's not really my theory. I read it years ago in a fairly authoritative publication on road safety.

It's all about perceived risk.
Everyone has a level of risk that they consider acceptable.
If someone was still driving a Morris Minor 1000 for example, they would allow more time for the car to accelerate and slow down and would travel at a sedate pace around corners.
Put them in a car with more power, better brakes and better handling and they drive in a way that they feel gives then the same margin for error and the same level of risk.

We know we have better brakes now, so we travel closer to the car in front.

Add to this the fact that young males and an increasing number of young females are actively seeking some excitement in their lives and they are increasingly using their car as a way of getting that adrenalin rush and crashes become more likely.

Another factor is that with more modern cars, things change much more rapidly than they did in my Austin A40. Things used to happen gradually, even tediously in my A40. A couple of seconds of acceleration produced a barely perceptible change in speed. In a modern car a second or so of acceleration means a big increase in speed and because it is quieter and smoother, the increase is probably less obvious than it was in the A40. So things can get out of hand quite quickly. It's not just about speed; it's also about the rate of change of speed.

A lot of that probably boils down to attitude.
Too many people have the attitude that they can drive as they do because:
1. They are young and have quick reflexes.
2. They are old and experienced.
3. Their car is equipped with all the latest ESP, ABS, TC and so on.
4. Their car is packed with safety features.
5. They have more rights on the road than other drivers.
6. Arriving safely at their destination is a lower priority than demonstrating their superiority over every other driver on the road on the way there.

While better training and tougher testing might help, it will never overcome the problem of having the wrong attitude.

Originally Posted by vnx205

A lot of the posts here support my theory about why injuries and deaths have not decreased as much as might be expected given how much safer modern cars are.
Actually it's not really my theory. I read it years ago in a fairly authoritative publication on road safety.

It's all about perceived risk.
Everyone has a level of risk that they consider acceptable.
If someone was still driving a Morris Minor 1000 for example, they would allow more time for the car to accelerate and slow down and would travel at a sedate pace around corners.
Put them in a car with more power, better brakes and better handling and they drive in a way that they feel gives then the same margin for error and the same level of risk.

We know we have better brakes now, so we travel closer to the car in front.

Add to this the fact that young males and an increasing number of young females are actively seeking some excitement in their lives and they are increasingly using their car as a way of getting that adrenalin rush and crashes become more likely.

Another factor is that with more modern cars, things change much more rapidly than they did in my Austin A40. Things used to happen gradually, even tediously in my A40. A couple of seconds of acceleration produced a barely perceptible change in speed. In a modern car a second or so of acceleration means a big increase in speed and because it is quieter and smoother, the increase is probably less obvious than it was in the A40. So things can get out of hand quite quickly. It's not just about speed; it's also about the rate of change of speed.

A lot of that probably boils down to attitude.
Too many people have the attitude that they can drive as they do because:
1. They are young and have quick reflexes.
2. They are old and experienced.
3. Their car is equipped with all the latest ESP, ABS, TC and so on.
4. Their car is packed with safety features.
5. They have more rights on the road than other drivers.
6. Arriving safely at their destination is a lower priority than demonstrating their superiority over every other driver on the road on the way there.

While better training and tougher testing might help, it will never overcome the problem of having the wrong attitude.

While generally I agree with everything you say, a couple of points -

1. Despite perceptions, road travel is actually safer than it has ever been.

2. The main reason that "injuries and deaths have not decreased as much as might be expected given how much safer modern cars are" is that the driver and roads are much more important than the car - and as you say, people drive to a perceived level of safety. Make the car safer, and they cut the safety margin. Probably why so few accidents are due to unroadworthy cars - the driver compensates for the poor steering, bald tyres etc. Another factor is that modern cars insulate you from your surroundings much more than even twenty years ago.

3. NSW has all sorts of silly restrictions for new drivers on (petrol) turbos and V8s. For example a new driver can't drive a V8 Stage 1, but can drive a Defender with much more power. The reason they could not just specify a maximum power/weight ratio, is that any figure that would make any difference would exclude virtually every new car sold today, certainly all the popular family cars.

4. The problem is not driver training - it is education about attitude. And a surprisingly large proportion of young drivers are in fact pretty responsible - you just don't notice them!

John

can't agree with the sentiment about things getting worse.

road toll coming down from what it was in 1970's and when you consider number of cars and drivers on roads now compared to 1970's number wise we are much better.

we will always have crashes injuries and deaths becasue we have human being sbehind the wheel making decisions good and bad and we are not infallible.

suggest if you won't to eliminate crashes design car to drive by itself with human beings assigned as passengers.

more cops doesn't equal safer roads

same as heavy fines don't mean safer drivers

your not going to eliminate people who pertually drive drunk, drive without license and so on only they can do that one way or another.

personally l favour the crush the car they are driving response to drivers caught being irresponsible and hooning on roads, whether they are the owners or not.

Originally Posted by Phred

I can only relate to you the amount of times that I stop my b-double at lights only to see any number of cars going through the red past me. B-double 62500 kg average car 1000-1500 kg. It's not about the vechile it's about the attitude of the person holding the steering wheel.

Goodonya mate. It's great to hear from one responsible truckie .... It's just a pity about a lot of your fellow drivers. Sure I see plenty of cars pulling the same stunt. Witnessed one this very morning. However it's all the more daunting when you see 62,500kg doing it .....

Anticipation is one of the most valuable skills that a driver has - oftentimes you become aware of circumstances as you're driving which prompt you to take action (slowing down, waiting, checking mirrors/blind spots etc.) which pre-empts and thus avoids incidents. Anticipation is reinforced by adhering to speed limits. It is also much facilitated by calmness - the more agro one gets the less capable one generally becomes - this applies in most facets of life.

What some younger drivers fail to appreciate (and I am not too far removed from being one of them) is that roads are not designed like race tracks i.e. no cars parked just over a crest, no children around...and you could go on. They overestimate their ability or, possibly more importantly, fail to realise that the other drivers out there on the road are not race drivers i.e. race drivers can be expected to behave and to control their cars in a fairly predictable way (in general!) which means you can drive one inch off their bumper as there is reasonable expectation of their actions - certainly not the case on our roads as far as different vehicles, different driver abilities/experience and different susceptibility and reaction to stressful situations on the part of individual drivers (keeping in mind that there is still a high degree of predictability on our roads if rules and common sense are adhered to). It is awareness of this and anticipation which much reduces the chance of an accident.

I had the disconcerting experience of being a passenger in a car, on several occasions, driven by someone who felt that the safest way of overtaking was to slipstream the car in front then suddenly veer out to pass them - "gives you much more power mate" - despite his passengers repeatedly pointing out the lack of necessity and the almost negligible margin for error he was giving himself. He was so focussed on this manoeuvre that it was quite apparent that nothing else occurring on the road around him was even factored into the equation i.e there was no anticipation of any other outcome other than that which he was fixated upon. Eventually we refused to get in the car any more.

I try to provide an example that positively influences my children and their mates with regards to sensible driving - hopefully it gets taken on board.