Thread: MaxTrax used today

Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

thats more of a toymotor problem than a rover problem that said.

If you have a locker in the rear, a sailsbury in the rear uprated axles in the rear then its stronger becuase you have changed it to something stronger OR have the sailsbury.

the front axles are a mite weaker up front than down the back but thats just the nature of making a steering live front axle you can make it tougher but that usually means more weight and more expense.

Hi Dave, yep aggree up to a point..takeing it as we have two standered rover diffs theres not much differance in strength between the two..

the big killer is once the diff gets bedded in operating in its normal direction working it hard in reverse or shock loading it in reverse tends to do bad things to the crown and pinion it usually wont break then and there but it will put stress fractures in and then when you go hard in the normal direction or do another recovery/trailer push/something that takes a little more effort than backing out of the coles carpark it'll let go.

yep aggree with the shock loading but works same for the rear diff as well shock load that and something will break (normally the short axle)
you can,and I have recovered many a stuck 110 with a reverse pull not no major shock loading to the front axle...

in the same vein the carrier pin for the center gear can also let go in exactly the same manner. and then you have large metal bits just meandering around in an area where there are large heavy bits of steel getting spun around by plenty of power and sometimes at quite the rate of knots and we all know the end result of that.

The single pin center should be thrown away there as week as ...also as an aside some one said in this thred "reverse is the weakest gear" I disaggree totaly its the strongest gear in a manual box

Tihis is Tony by the way (Panda made me put that in)

Aaron, to address your query about joining the main strap to the equaliser strap, and whether you should use a shackle, (in my opinion) you did exactly the right thing in avoiding the use of a shackle. The equaliser strap appears to have a sleeve around it to protect it from being chafed by the eye in the main strap and this should be a perfectly satisfactory arrangement.

Also the equaliser strap is long enough that the angle at the point of pull (between the two arms of the equaliser strap) appears to be way less than 90º which is good. If the strap is too short, the angle is too large and the main strap tends to pull the two chassis rails on the recovered vehicle towards each other (crushing the spreader rail) which is very bad.

In general, it is my opinion that that one should never use a shackle to join two ropes or straps subject to a shock loading like that in a recovery. If one of the components breaks the shackle becomes a missile, which, as Dave rightly points out would be preferable to to receive into the rear door than through the front windscreen (so tow with the rear end if you can). If you need to join two ropes it is better to use an appropriate knot or splice or to intertwine two splices loops with a piece of low mass material in the centre (which can be pulled out afterwards to release the join) than use a shackle.

If using a shackle becomes unavoidable (as can happen sometimes out bush with limited resources), at least put a piece of carpet or a sack or even a large coat over it to act as a damper if the worst happens and it gets launched into the air - the damper will slow it down and remove most of it's energy (with luck).

There will always be something that someone will tell you that you could have done better but I think you did a good job here.

I did wonder about how high it looked on the Defender but decided it must have been the picture. Get the recovery hooks mounted on the chassis rails if you can.

ohhh this reeks of a can of worms......

the front axles are a mite weaker up front than down the back but thats just the nature of making a steering live front axle you can make it tougher but that usually means more weight and more expense.

Hi Dave, yep aggree up to a point..takeing it as we have two standered rover diffs theres not much differance in strength between the two..

(read the red bit again)

the big killer is once the diff gets bedded in operating in its normal direction working it hard in reverse or shock loading it in reverse tends to do bad things to the crown and pinion it usually wont break then and there but it will put stress fractures in and then when you go hard in the normal direction or do another recovery/trailer push/something that takes a little more effort than backing out of the coles carpark it'll let go.

yep aggree with the shock loading but works same for the rear diff as well shock load that and something will break (normally the short axle)

the shortest axle is the front right halfshaft that heads into the Cv joint on that side. when you load up and bog down trying to do a snatch the side(front or rear) thats hooked up usually diggs in harder letting the leading side spin more easily this is to do with basic weight transfer and the fact that most times your pulling downwards on the recovery point as the stuck vehicle is usually lower than your recovery point, this adds weight to the wheels that are closest. More weight generally means more traction which means less likelyhood of slippage which means more stress on the driveline. if your pulling in reverse your now using the shortest axle and putting it in the situation where it is likely to be exposed to the maximum amount of torque you can generate and as is already pointed out its usually the short axle that breaks.

you can,and I have recovered many a stuck 110 with a reverse pull not no major shock loading to the front axle... no arguments here so have I but theres a world of difference between what you should do and what you can do. I can kill people, doesnt mean that I should.

in the same vein the carrier pin for the center gear can also let go in exactly the same manner. and then you have large metal bits just meandering around in an area where there are large heavy bits of steel getting spun around by plenty of power and sometimes at quite the rate of knots and we all know the end result of that.

The single pin center should be thrown away there as week as ...also as an aside some one said in this thred "reverse is the weakest gear" I disaggree totaly its the strongest gear in a manual box they're not [THAT bad but they couldve been better and there is a 6 gear center available

it might be the lowest ratio in the box but its not the strongest. The strongest gear is 4th gear (or whichever gear is the direct coupling of the input shaft to the output shaft in your box). Dont confuse strength with gear reductions. Talking generically (not just rover boxes) Reverse gear is also usualy square cut as its a sliding mesh gear and not a helical cut constant mesh gear. As such it has much smaller tooth contact areas, that makes the reverse gears weaker in the same way and for the same reason that 10 spline axles suffer more spline wear than 24 spline axles. The biggest thing going for reverse gear is that it minimises thrust loading on the layshaft and the output shaft of the gearbox


Tihis is Tony by the way (Panda made me put that in)

in all seriousness Id love to hear why you think reverse gear is strongest and what method you use to reverse recover.

A bit of telecom rope would've pulled it off wet grass.

My gutlux work ute is much the same model; at the house I just sold I regularly had to air down just to get up the concrete driveway when it rained.

Originally Posted by Aaron

I might get a rectangle plate made up to act as a big washer to spread the load.

Do you mean these holes?



I have seen on a website (which I can't find ATM) a plate that bolts up to those holes with an eye loop welded on it. But from the pictures they look alarmingly small, and I couldnt find a load rating.

Just had a look on Expeditionechange.com. Interesting page - https://www.expeditionexchange.com/dixonbate/

The 5t one id like on the back.

those are exactly the 6 holes im talking about...

a 7/16th diameter grade 10 bolt has a shear load rating of well over 2t and providing its got enough threads gripping and a suitable washer under the head to prevent pull through has a tensile load of over 4t.

Ive seen the plates and a similar one is on the back of some patrols as a standard recovery point.. IF one of them can handle one of those overladen easily bogged elephants a tractionally disadvantaged deefer should be no dramas for it.

why not make one? a chunk of suitabley drilled 10mm plate with a structually welded lifting eye (available from some rigging shops premade + prepped for welding) in the center whould give you plenty.

I haven't welded since high school days... so 4.5 years, although from memory I was an A student, I don't trust my ability.

Is a 5t rated shackle thing (one on expeditionexchange) Strong enough for say me recovering a laden Patrol?

Although after taking my car for a road worthy today and been belittled twice in the same day about owning a LR Im not much in the mood to pull anyone else out atm. I know thats not in the true spirit of things.

If the Haymen reace thing is the ultimate. What would I be looking at brand new? fitted?

Originally Posted by 100I

A bit of telecom rope would've pulled it off wet grass.

My gutlux work ute is much the same model; at the house I just sold I regularly had to air down just to get up the concrete driveway when it rained.

They are gutlux.... But show me a car as reliable as it is!

To start with yeah it would have been. By the time I hooked the Defender up to it, the diff was almost touching the ground, and the front wheels were also sicking in purely because of how soft the ground was.

It didn't require to much throttle to get it out though.