Sunrise asking should 4wd's be taxed?

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Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies

No we tax cyclists so that they cover some of the injury compensation that everyone else also has to pay.

Yes - cyclists do cause crashes, by crossing against the red light, knocking down pedestrians when riding on footpaths etc. but will acknowledge that it is frequently the motorist at fault.

Perhaps some of the tax could be used to build more cycleways - The M7 tollroad only has 4 cycleways/cycle lanes so could do with a couple more.

Diana

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I'm not lobbying for more cycleways. I'm arguing against a tax imposed on a very small minority for using a transport system that is far more economical and eco friendly than anything going around. We should encourage that .. not tax it.

Even a hefty tax on cyclists will not be enough to build a fishpond.

If 200,000 cyclist start using the M7 on a regular basis .. the government will slap a tax on bikes so quickly it will make your front wheel spin! Why kick the cyclist because ignorant beaurocrats are lobbying for a tax on 4WD's?

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Originally Posted by dobbo

So's a bus, but how many people can they carry?

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Read my reply in context - it is in regard to complaints about bicycles on roads - so I'm saying, slow down, be aware - cyclists are traffic. Your other "point" has no relation to my post.

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Originally Posted by dobbo

I know, whats your solution to this problem considering the average person lives between 25km and 50km's away from there place of work?
Afterall it would be hard picking up toddlers from preschool on a pushbike, how do you do your grocery shopping on a pushbike?

How many people honestly ride pushbikes to work everyday?

How many exectutives turn up to meetings covered in sweat and stinking due to riding their pushbike to the meeting in their tailored suits?

How many other forms of transport do not require registration?

You have to register a horse and cart, it produces very little carbon emissions, why not a bike.

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Geez mate, I mean this in the nicest way .. can you please read other people's posts before drawing conclusions. In a thread related to a possible tax on 4WD's you suggest a tax on pushbikes. All I am doing is arguing against a tax on pushbikes because of the number of benefits they provide.

I never suggested you should drop your kids in your tailored suit before an important meeting. I'm not a bike hippy, I don't want cars to be replaced by bikes. I enjoy my Defender just as much as you enjoy your landy, but why take a stab at pushies just because 4WD's are under the pump!

Here's my 2 cents:

Firstly regarding 4WD's in the city and all the Toorak tractors and soccer mum vehicles. This really annoys me. I need a 4WD because I can't drive out of town without one, I need something that can handle long hot outback trips and go places without roads (or very minor tracks). Everything about 4WD's is geared towards promoting them for city people and city use (e.g. the Ford Territory ad). Even the build of most 4WD's is aimed at the person who really isn't interested in going off-road (but would like to dream about it). So this all leads to a problem where the marketing and design people at the car companies really don't want to know about people in out of the way places who need a proper 4WD and will use it as such.

Until recent years in this country, people movers weren't as available as they are now. If you had 4 kids you were shown a 7 seater 4WD. This has changed over recent years. But as I'm sure anyone with a large family will tell you, that even a nice big 7 seat 4WD with 6 people in it leaves little to no room for luggage etc. But again marketing seems to promote them as being very roomy and just the thing for a large family.

Leased vehicles is another issue. Your company offers an option of a leased vehicle, there's not much difference between a Corolla and a V8 petrol Cruiser so what would you take? Hell you might even use the big 4WD one day. Where's the proof, look at how many low mileage petrol V8 cruisers there are on the market. Now that isn't thinking green at all!

Australian's attitude to 4WD's is almost as bad as the Yank's. If its not a big 4 point something litre motor in a big vehicle we don't want it. How many of you have heard people say that a 2.5L Land Rover just can't be compared to a 4.2L Patrol or Cruiser?

Personally I think they should make 4WD's for those that will use them and not as Toorak tractors. I don't disagree with taxing people for buying 4WD's when they will never use the vehicle as intended. I also think they should enforce more common sense in the advertising of 4WD's. The other thing I should add, I'm convinced that the average city dweller thinks a 4WD is anything from the plethora of soft-roaders up to the supposed genuine 4WD's - and the media plays on this.

Anyway I'll climb down of the :soapbox: and go hide in a corner somewhere :wheelchair:

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Originally Posted by Greylandy

Geez mate, I mean this in the nicest way .. can you please read other people's posts before drawing conclusions. In a thread related to a possible tax on 4WD's you suggest a tax on pushbikes. All I am doing is arguing against a tax on pushbikes because of the number of benefits they provide.

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The really sad thing about this, is that inner Sydney, the Eastern Suburbs and the North Shore/Northern Beaches all have too many hills to make cycle transport a viable mass transport option.

That and the inner city crush means that cycleways are only ever likely to be built in the Western and Outer Western Suburbs.

I guess even one decent cycleway in from the West along the Western Dristributor route and one in from the South Western suburbs shouldn't be impossible.

BUT not on motorways - too dangerous for everyone!

Diana

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Originally Posted by Greylandy

Geez mate, I mean this in the nicest way .. can you please read other people's posts before drawing conclusions. In a thread related to a possible tax on 4WD's you suggest a tax on pushbikes. All I am doing is arguing against a tax on pushbikes because of the number of benefits they provide.

I never suggested you should drop your kids in your tailored suit before an important meeting. I'm not a bike hippy, I don't want cars to be replaced by bikes. I enjoy my Defender just as much as you enjoy your landy, but why take a stab at pushies just because 4WD's are under the pump!

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OK sorry,

I'm in shock as to think you can imagine me in anything tailored!!!!!!!!

Believe it or not the average CBD worker either lives out in the Western or South west suburbs or up the North coast (where they can afford to live) Cycling from 30km - 50km's even 90km's to work each day and then back is not feasible. My train to and from work each day is jam packed from Gosford to the CBD each day. Try doing that on a pushie. Mt White on the F3 would be interesting. I would love to ride everyday to the station but there is not enough room on trains or at the stations to store the pushbikes, the only option I have is to drive my car to the station each day.

So guys, whats the answer to applying a levy/fee to vehicles entering the CBD?

:wasntme:

Well, lets just tax everyone into oblivion because one section of the community thinks so. I am sure that we can find one area of their lives that should be taxed heavier, watch them come out fighting then. Taxing everything is not the answer.
What about those of use that only get into the city occassionaly and only have a 4x4. As it is I stay out of city centres as with the cost of parking it is a waste of time and public transport does not suit me. The real issue is that more and more people are living further and further away from their place of employment. People used to to be able to live close to where they work. De-centralisation may or may not help.
There are serious issues with public transport costs and safety that put a lot off using this service and has been found in Perth lately with station car parks.
And who came up with the stupid argument that a 7 seater should pay less than a 5 seater. That is absolutely ridiculous unless you are going to fill all seven seats for the entire journey. See if you can convince 2 large adults to sit in your 2 back seats in a Disco for an hour twice a day, 5 times a week.

Vehicles in the CBD:
Firstly, is it desirable to reduce the number of vehicles in the CBD, if so an additional tax on them may be a way to limit the numbers of all vehicles although you then have to consider where those who need to get there would park and how they would complete their journey. This means access to cheap parking outside the CBD and an efficient transport system that people will want to use or they will just pay the tax and nothing will be achieved, except that the government can say they are helping the environment whilst pocketing some extra income.
I work in Canberra and have the opportunity to fly to Sydney when I need to go there but I don't because it is more expensive and takes longer to get to my destination than if I drive.

Taxing Four Wheel Drives:
Last time I looked this was a reasonably free country where you can spend your money as you please. Why do people have this burning desire to tax those who don't meet their criteria of being deserving enough to buy a 4wd?
I own a Land Rover because it suits my lifestyle. Some of the reasons it does are:
It can tow a fully loaded tandem trailer
It has room to carry my family (4 of us ) and a set of Grandparents
I can bolt a bullbar on it and be reasonably confident I can hit roos with minimal damage
Being diesel it is economical to run for a vehicle of it's size
I can go camping and access tracks that I could not with a lesser vehicle.

The bullbar point might not apply if tomorrow I won the lottery and moved to Vaucluse, but the others would and yet I would then be criticised for having a 4wd in the city.
It seems that there is a media campaign on at the moment designed to get the masses enraged, in the last two weeks I have seen articles on fencing driveways, making reversing cameras compulsory, and banning 4wds in the city. There must be something interesting happening that they don't want us to notice.......

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Originally Posted by simonl8353

So guys, whats the answer to applying a levy/fee to vehicles entering the CBD?

:wasntme:

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As was said before - ETag the CBD, and charge all vehicles for the time they are in the area.

• Residents are exempt - providing they have off-street parking.
• Bona-fide courier and delivery vehicles have the charge waved when they get a validation stamp/signature for the deliveries. This is done with the statement when it is mailed back - the same as the charge-back system currently works. They may be audited.
• All parking stations are outside the ETag zone.

There is decent low cost public transport within the CBD - like the Paris Metro or the New York City subway.

It's a user pays scheme.

Diana