Thread: This is fair justice

Ummm, not quite Stevo....

Arizona has a recidivism rate of over 50%.
Most of their inmates (77%) are first time offenders.
Most of their inmates (56%) are in for non violent crimes.

That clearly is a system that is not working.

I am no bleeding heart liberal, but a realist.
People get sentenced to gaol "as" punishment, not "for" punishment.
The loss of liberty is a massive thing, and anyone who thinks any prison in OZ is like a motel, has most likely never set foot in one.
Prisoners shouldn't get pampered, but they shouldn't be treated like animals or slaves either.

Keep a dog in a cage, and belt it. It won't come out and be nice. It'll either come out and kill everything, or be broken and useless.

Some people are beyond help, but the majority aren't. If you don't treat them with respect (even the dregs), and use their time productively, at the the end of their sentence, you're letting out something worse than you originally put in.

I would rather a crim came out of the can, educated, with half a clue and some life skills, than a laundry man with huge muscles and a bigger chip on his shoulder.

P.S. The death penalty may wipe out recidivism, put it has been proven, time and again, it doesn't lower the crime rate, or act as a deterrent.

Frickin bleeding hearts and assumption makers, you know what they say about assumptions . Given that right or left wing seems to make narry a difference, I would prefer this scum to be having the harder option. In terms of "overseas" countries like the US....it is pretty much too late...so quote all ya like. What I was referring to.....based on my knowledge......is countries like Singapore/ Hong Kong where harsh punishment has been in place from the get go and some of the Arab nations, ditto Japan. We as in Oz look like the US when it comes to crime rates,

Regards

Stevo

For the benefit of those here who have had no contact with the correctional system, there is no such thing as "easy time". Even if you are locked up in a five star holiday resort, the fact is you can not go down to the shops/movies/away on holidays or anywhere! Deprivation of liberty alone is enough to do your head in over time.

Sure, some people may feel bitter resentment to a prisoner who is in a "comfy" cell with cable TV and three square meals a day (even if dinner is a 4:30 in the afternoon). If so, then go outside and take a walk to the park or go play with your kids or dog. You have just demonstrated why life in a crappy environment outside is better than life in any form of prison.

For the benefit of those here who have had no contact with the correctional system, there is no such thing as "easy time". Even if you are locked up in a five star holiday resort, the fact is you can not go down to the shops/movies/away on holidays or anywhere! Deprivation of liberty alone is enough to do your head in over time.

Sure, some people may feel bitter resentment to a prisoner who is in a "comfy" cell with cable TV and three square meals a day (even if dinner is a 4:30 in the afternoon). If so, then go outside and take a walk to the park or go play with your kids or dog. You have just demonstrated why life in a crappy environment outside is better than life in any form of prison.

Oh boo hoo for the poor crim, tell that to my Aunty, my mother and my cousins now in their mid 20's when their father ( my uncle) was murdered in cold blood in an armed robbery. Tell that to the mother recently who's boyfriend murdered her 2 1/2 yr old son.....etc.etc..etc. Bitter resentment, doubt it, the old saying do the crime..do the time......but it should not be done in any comfort whatsoever..........they are just resemblences of human beings.

Regards

Stevo

Originally Posted by stevo68

What I was referring to.....based on my knowledge......is countries like Singapore/ Hong Kong where harsh punishment has been in place from the get go and some of the Arab nations, ditto Japan. We as in Oz look like the US when it comes to crime rates,

Regards

Stevo

So you wanna be like Singapore where you can be held without trial or jury, for any period, on 'suspicion'? Or arrested for not flushing a public toilet, smoking or swearing in a public place (you'd be on death row Stevo )
Arab countries with harsh laws hey? Like the "western friendly" ones, places like Saudi, Jordan & Pakistan where a thief (even children) can lose their hand, or rape victims get stoned or lashed...no thanks.

Originally Posted by stevo68

Oh boo hoo for the poor crim, tell that to my Aunty, my mother and my cousins now in their mid 20's when their father ( my uncle) was murdered in cold blood in an armed robbery. Tell that to the mother recently who's boyfriend murdered her 2 1/2 yr old son.....etc.etc..etc. Bitter resentment, doubt it, the old saying do the crime..do the time......but it should not be done in any comfort whatsoever..........they are just resemblences of human beings.

Regards

Stevo

Hi Stevo,
Crime is horrible, and I feel for your Aunt. mother & cousins.

I also make no attempt to justify the murder of anyone.

However, while you may think that criminals are not human beings, perhaps unfortunately, they are.

The punishment system says more about us as "punishers" than it does about the punished. While we may abhor the crimes committed, should we treat convicted criminals inhumanely?

What is "inhumane" is the constant (and varying) question.

So you wanna be like Singapore where you can be held without trial or jury, for any period, on 'suspicion'? Or arrested for not flushing a public toilet, smoking or swearing in a public place (you'd be on death row Stevo )
Arab countries with harsh laws hey? Like the "western friendly" ones, places like Saudi, Jordan & Pakistan where a thief (even children) can lose their hand, or rape victims get stoned or lashed...no thanks.

Sorry, did I say that?? Had a quick squizz back and pretty sure I didn't. The point I was trying to make is that, those countries where they are extreme have very low crime rates, compared to countries like ours where we have a more "left" wing approach to punishment. Could we perhaps take a more harsher approach to crime and the relevant punishment.......I think so. 30 odd years ago, if I back chatted my teacher, I would have got the cane........it was very rare, if at all anyone did. Those that did tended to be on the "denser" side . Is it so rare now....or is it relatively common place? A quick chat to my 9 and 10 yr old who tell me about the behaviour of other children at school is appalling.

Regards

Stevo

Originally Posted by stevo68

Sorry, did I say that?? Had a quick squizz back and pretty sure I didn't. The point I was trying to make is that, those countries where they are extreme have very low crime rates, compared to countries like ours where we have a more "left" wing approach to punishment. Could we perhaps take a more harsher approach to crime and the relevant punishment.......I think so. 30 odd years ago, if I back chatted my teacher, I would have got the cane........it was very rare, if at all anyone did. Those that did tended to be on the "denser" side . Is it so rare now....or is it relatively common place? A quick chat to my 9 and 10 yr old who tell me about the behaviour of other children at school is appalling.

Regards

Stevo

Hi Stevo,
I am somewhat equivacol ('sp) about the value of corporal punishment. I know that, sometimes when I received it at school I deserved it, and sometimes I didn't. But it has "made me the person I am". On balance, however, I feel that I'm a better person because of it.

On the other hand, others wouldn't have received corporal in so balanced a way. This would also have contributed to the person they are.

In balance, it would seem that corporal punishment in schools was applied inappropriately &, gradually, it was removed.

The argument will continue forever about the value of corporal punishment, but the difficulty is separating the "crime" from the "punishment". It must be applied objectively. (Who can ensure that?)

I had a look through HMAS Vampire and a sub at Darling Harbour the other day. If you look at those living conditions and compare them with the living conditions of most gaols on Australia, I know which one I'd prefer. But the blokes on the boat usually volunteered for that...and for a cause.

I get a little tired of people suggesting we treat our crims and refugees inhumanely. I often wonder if those critics would offer a bed at their place for a fortnight to these people - i doubt it.

Some people are just scum. They have no respect for anyone or anything and perhaps breaking them down to where they have nothing, literally nothing, then building them up so that they can possibly assimilate into 'society' is an option.

It's also very easy to pass judgement on the way crims are treated until you or perhaps a loved one have been subject to a crime - not just your car being broken into either - a violent, barbaric crime. Then see what rehabilitation means to you and your family. Fortunately I haven't been in that position but I work with it frequently and I see that for the victims, the rehabilitation arguement is not far from an insult.

We're all entitled to an opinion and certainly to voice it, but clearly the current systems are that effective and perhaps a little more 'traditional' approach is worth considering