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buggars me why we sell the gas overseas at all,,
if we converted all our road cars to gas,
we would then be not at the mercy of the oil shieks.
we HAVE a cheap fuel that would be cheap to convert to,
it would take THE NATION out of the oil price spiral--
why are we so concerned about oil??
Yes. I thought it was longer ago than that - shows how you can misremember dates!Quote:
Originally Posted by B92 8NW
John
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro_The_Swift
Simple - because liquid fuels are so much more convenient than gas. And remember we are talking about methane, not the higher hydrocarbons such as propane and butane that can be liquified by pressure at normal temperatures and are sold as LPG.
Certainly compressed natural gas can be and is used as a vehicle fuel, but there is no distribution network, and the cost of setting one up would be large, quite apart from the conversion costs of vehicles (much higher than LPG because of the pressures involved). Add to that problems like a much longer refuelling time, and the current way of effectively selling the gas overseas and buying oil looks attractive, or alternatively gas to liquid conversion.
The price gas is currently sold for overseas is ultimately determined by the price of oil - it looks cheap because what is quoted is the well head price of the gas - its delivered price in Tokyo is roughly equivalent to the price of oil. The difference is the cost of producing the gas, liquefying it, transporting it halfway round the world at 161 degrees below zero in the most expensive type of ship in existence, and then storing it at the same temperature, boiling it off as required. The cost of delivering it to the populous eastern states would be almost as much, as the major costs are the capital investment. And note that the fields producing this gas could not have been put in production for domestic consumption, as the the market is insufficient to pay for the capital costs involved.
It is worth noting that although natural gas was discovered in Australia a hundred years ago, it was not produced until the discovery of gas relatively close to the Brisbane market, plus improved technology, allowed the construction of the Roma pipeline in the early sixties. The next development was the supply of gas to Melbourne around 1970, again with a discovery fairly close to a major market. Sydney had to pay a lot more for their gas some years later, and Rex Connor's national grid remains a dream, although with rising gas prices and consumption it is perhaps getting closer.
As a matter of interest, while historically gas has been a cheap fuel (until the last ten or twenty years, a gas discovery in a well drilled for oil was regarded as little better than a dry hole), it is now generally regarded as a premium fuel for environmental reasons, and buyers will pay more for it than for fuel oil, if it is available. But as mentioned above - liquids are much more convenient, particularly for vehicles!
John
Well if we go back in time the fuel excise tax was introduced by Malcolm Fraser Govt at 4 cents litre and it was a tax that was supposed to be used to make all roads around Australia Bitumen as at that time Adelaide Darwin and West road to Perth and road across tops were dirt. Once the roads had been paid for it was supposed to develop alternative fuel for Australia as it was predicted Bass strait oil would run out within 20 years.
Excise tax was also set on Singapore light crude price by Fraser so Australian oil produced wasn't sold too cheaply
Now 25 years later we have fuel excise tax money going to general revenue no alternative fuel and 4 cents has increased under CPI formula to xx times
I also remember Nissan making a 200 Nissan as pure LPG vehicle no petrol tank in the car just LPG in the 1980's as well think they only sold about 500 then. I think Ford also had a go at selling a LPG only model Falcon wasn't a big hit commercially either except with Victorian Taxi industry.
Yes Govt could simply tell car manufacturers produce LPG fuelled cars or Diesel Fuel Cars, technology been around for 50 years plus.
Seems more in favour of Oil revenue monies than economy of vehicles
Worlsey Alum Refinery expanison at Collie will be building a new 200 megawatt powerstation for the refinery power needs and sell off excess power to the WA grid on site this baby being built will be a multi fuel design can run off coal, bio mass wood cotton waste, gas or diesel, latest technology design and low pollution emissions
LandyAndy I've only bin in WA for 2.5 months and I can't get over the lack of money spent on intrastructure.It doesn't suprise me that there is only one gas pipe supply line here as there is no housing,no dentist and schools are mostly full etc.The government is making obscene amounts of money and none of it is going into the community.We have a shut down at work now and 500 workers are coming on site for 4 months and they cannot get cars,housing,plane flights anything,it is a dogs breakfeast.I thought NSW was run by short sighted fools but they are visionaries compared to the mickey mouse club here. Pat
:confused::confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by LandyAndy
Hi John
No reason they cant pour more gas into that pipline.It starts at Dampier where Woodside have their LNG plant.The gas feild that had the explosion tap into the pipline quite some distance to the south on its way to Perth.
Andrew
Yes - but is the pipeline from Dampier a) connected to all the fields? or b) operating already at capacity? (it only needs one bottleneck to make it impossible to supply extra gas) If there is no physical impediment to Woodside adding to the supply to make up (at least in part) for the shortage I am surprised there has not been at least some pressure for them to do so. If there has been, I have not heard of it, but then I'm not in WA! It would be interesting to look at a detailed pipeline map - just because the pipes from the Woodside fields go to Dampier, and there is a pipeline to Perth, does not mean there is a connection between them - most likely the pipeline to Perth is only connected to the field(s) dedicated to it. Adding a link would presumably not be a very big job - but then neither are the repairs from the explosion. But both would probably take the same time.Quote:
Originally Posted by LandyAndy
John