On a serious note

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Originally Posted by Slunnie

Like points were more reliable than electronic ignition, and carbies giving less grief than EFI. :lol2:

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If your points fail replace them (even i can do that) if your carby fails clean it and replace. How do you replace your electronic ignition or efi system when your on top of a dune in the middle of the gulf 4 hours drive from the nearest aboriginal community that is pretending to be civillisation.
If you can fix a lawnmower you can fix an old landy. Lets see how you cope when your td5 rolls to a stop with all the dash lights on in the middle of nowhere.

You can keep talking about how great the engines of today are but what do they do differently compared to a well maintained county? Apparently emissions are down. Thats got to be worth $50,000

Hmmm wonder why the army held onto those Perenties for the last 25 odd years

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Originally Posted by Mick-Kelly

If your points fail replace them (even i can do that) if your carby fails clean it and replace. How do you replace your electronic ignition or efi system when your on top of a dune in the middle of the gulf 4 hours drive from the nearest aboriginal community that is pretending to be civillisation.
If you can fix a lawnmower you can fix an old landy. Lets see how you cope when your td5 rolls to a stop with all the dash lights on in the middle of nowhere.

You can keep talking about how great the engines of today are but what do they do differently compared to a well maintained county? Apparently emissions are down. Thats got to be worth $50,000

Hmmm wonder why the army held onto those Perenties for the last 25 odd years

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why did they bring the county out, why not just keep the series

County has a nicer looking dashboard and better gearbox :p

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Originally Posted by Mick-Kelly

County has a nicer looking dashboard and better gearbox :p

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mmmmmmmmmm where have i heard that before:D

BTW the last example of vehicular woe i experienced was in my wifes 6cyl sonata (i know we own 2 we are suckers for punishment) It started with a cough on acceleration that turned into the dreaded stall at a set of traffic lights. No restart so towed to work. Towed car to garage where there was conjecture about ignition modules and fuel pumps. $200 later problem diagnosed as ignition module failure. Pick vehicle up and drive home. Halfway there stall again on freeway and get towed again. Problem now diagnosed as failed (electronic) crank angle sensor. $700 later on the way and problem fixed. I love how a cheap and nasty little switch can result in three tows and almost a grand in cash along with extreme frustration. Could have almost bought a county for the end price of a faulty electronic switch.

Just so i dont appear like a complete cave dweller i am actually in favour of some electronics in vehicles. I would love one of Incs in car computer systems for navigation and music etc. I just dont think electronic management has any place in engines. There is absolutely no need for it and it is an unacceptable risk in my opinion. If the electronic mapping fails the paper one wont. ;)

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Originally Posted by Mick-Kelly

If your points fail replace them (even i can do that) if your carby fails clean it and replace. How do you replace your electronic ignition or efi system when your on top of a dune in the middle of the gulf 4 hours drive from the nearest aboriginal community that is pretending to be civillisation.
If you can fix a lawnmower you can fix an old landy. Lets see how you cope when your td5 rolls to a stop with all the dash lights on in the middle of nowhere.

You can keep talking about how great the engines of today are but what do they do differently compared to a well maintained county? Apparently emissions are down. Thats got to be worth $50,000

Hmmm wonder why the army held onto those Perenties for the last 25 odd years

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That the interesting thing. In days gone by people knew how to fix things, but that was because they so regularly had to fix things. These people that dont know how to... is because they dont have to. Thats the beauty of automotive electronics. We dont have points that are closed up or burnt out anymore, we dont have gummed up and gritty carbies anymore or surge in corners and that type of thing, and so things dont have to be fixed and people dont have to learn how to fix them. If computers popped as regularly as carbies and points went bad, then every service station would be carrying ECU's like they did points and carby cleaner. But its a moot point anyway, as if you're sitting on top of Big Red or in an isolated community, then irrespective of if it is a burnt out point or a popped ECU, you will still be waiting for a new one to come in. Yep, you can fudge a point, but you can also limp an ECU.

I'm just thinking to all of my time driving points and carby cars and engine managed cars and I most definately know what type has given all of the probs... and it has had nothing to do with ECU's.

But, when you talk about know how... there is absolutely no skill in replacing electronic units - they're plug and play and even someone who couldnt fix their lawnmower could do it, unlike the skill needed to set points and rebuild and then tune carbies. You learn what you've got to learn, you dont what you dont.

Whats the modern engine do differently to a well maintained old engine. I guess its like comparing jet aircraft to prop planes... they both do the job, but 1 does it well.

Army... why do they keep the Perenties for 25 years. Probably the same reason the airforce still use prop planes. The life of the vehicles are projected when they go out to tender and they make them last - the ADF in my opinion are quite frugal in their capital spending.

The projected life of the Perenties was ten years. Guess the later landys just didnt inspire a need for a replacement. From my experience the two things that kill electronics is vibration and moisture. If Defenders are known for anything its vibration and moisture. :p BTW i would rather pay for a new set of points than an ECU

I didn't by a new Disco3 for three key reasons when I replaced the D2:
1. Price - $75K was just a bit too much
2. Servicing - AFAIK there isn't a fully functional Rovacom system for the D3 yet and the way I read it, you basically need the computer system to assist in servicing.
3. Defender suited our needs better, didn't feel as "heavy" to drive as the D3, wasn't any noiser than my D1.

I live 1100km from the nearest dealer and the electronics don't scare me. I must say they did initially with the D2, but I agree with Mike, you're most likely going to have something mechanical fail. I'd still by a D3 or RRS over a LC200.

The sad fact is electronics are here to stay,get over it.Point two,only the defender is an offroad vehicle today,all the others have to be re-worked in one way or another or just have a fault that can't be fixed.Only the troopy could match the defender but it needs new suspension to work and you have to pull the motor to fix anything below the rocker covers,it also doesn't have limp mode,no tojo's do and toyota will not release a nanocom system to find out whats wrong.I want to buy a new fender but the boss wants a D3. Pat