Thread: When will you upgrade to a D3?

The air flow meter died in the D1, car stopped dead.
The air flow meter died in the D2, car still runs, not great but good enough to live with for quite a while.

oh wait,, I'm sorry thats not a "legal" breakdown , it didnt happen in a desert miles from anywhere,,, FFS.

I agree the electrics on these things are often far more reliable than the mechanical. The fear of little black boxes is not the reason I don't drive a D3.

My reason is plain and simple........ $$$.

I really like them.... but to get a decent secondhand diesel one, I need to part with twice as many dollars as I did for my latest DII with lots of fruit...

At this point - for me anyway I just can't see twice the value in them.

They are a fantastic bit of gear..... at the right price I'd have one tomorrow..

But given the DII does everything I want - I'll save the extra $25-30 K and put it those other expenses life throws at you ..like school fees etc. ..

Then again maybe.. $25k of fuel buys you a lot of outback touring

Maybe the next one will be a D3..... time will tell.

Mark

PS for the record: Mechanical verses electrical failures on my previous DII

Electrical :.. Crank Angle sensor failure... made it a bastard to start and stalled a lot... but got me home:
Tree amigo's - PITA .. but never left me stranded.
MAF - sucked more fuel than the Queen Mary .. but got me home.

Mechanical: Front double Uni... caught it just in time - caused an extra overnight stay on a trip....(others here have experienced what I avoided by finding it.)
Starter motor - total instant failure... car no go.

So far the Electricals win in my book.

To not fear is to not know...

Its electronics not electics - electrics are fine 12 volt.

Electronics are the problem - usually .2 to 1.2 volt max so if there is the slightest blemish in the system - eg corrosion on terminals or earths so minute you cant even see it with the naked eye you will get problems.

The problem that I have with electronics is that there is no warning - just sudden and even worse intermittent failures (and warning lights are failures in the system) and quite often horrendous cost to locate and replace bits and pieces that most mechanics think need replacing because the Testbook or equivalent points the finger at them...I know I have harped on this but cost is the other big issue...I simply cannot see the value in the sensor components be they MAFs or crank angle sensors or throttle position switches or ABS components - compared to a mechanical part such as a differential or axle its a joke. Its a joke even compared to a brand new distributor (Australian Bosch) with all its working parts (even it contains a module but its a cheap to replace one and they rarely fail unlike the original Lucas ones) - eg the one I got recently for my D1 from Performance Ignitions.

Cheers

What I don't get from quite a few say on this forum, is this whole thing with electronics. Anything can happen. Looking at my D3 for example, it had one suspension failure, that rectified itself, had software downloaded.....100,000kms no worries after that. The main thing that happened to my D3 was..........mechanical. Have a look in the tech section here, a fair bit of mechanical issues. 2 weekends ago, out 4wding, one of club members who has a D90, had a huge mechanical failure halfway up a steep climb. Both driveshafts went. If that happened out whoop whoop, you'd be in a bit of strife. All late model vehicles have electronics, our 04 XR6 has done over 100,000 km's fault free. My D2 that I got at 80,000 km's has just ticked over 100,000 km,s, its had to have one sensor replaced, other than faultless.

Some of us don't have to wait for the scraps from the table of leasee's I could go buy one cash , new, I just don't like them. Big brick looking things with too much pommy electrickery.....(Lucas, triumph) But very good off road, providing the puter puts up with the bumps ,doesn't have a hissy fit and drop your suspension and you won't get lost..you just follow the trail of plastic bits on the way out that have either fallen or been ripped off.

As for these comments, just disappointing from a supposed fellow LR enthusiast and ignorant. D3's dont have Lucas electrickery for starters, and need we forget same person was looking at an 03 Fender extreme....with electrickery . For someone from the forum that I have always considered a salt of the earth type of bloke, you sure can come across as arrogant as some of the toffs I have known in my past. You'd expect the continual hanging crap on Disco's to come from a yota or nissan driver....not an LR enthusiast,

Regards

Stevo

like most things the cost is not in the item ,its in the research to develop the item.

how much do you think a headache pill costs to make?


and fear is fear.

I UNDERSTAND my tyre may inexplicably explode,,
just look at the mess on any highway,,
does that stop me from owning cars with pneumatic tyres?


(and how much do you think run-flat tyres cost to develop)

Originally Posted by p38arover

LR are not alone. I recall one Japanese manufacturer recalling over 1 million engines (not all badged under that manufacturer's name) owing to a possible sensor fault.

LR wouldn't - they'd wait until it failed thus causing catastrophic damage.

From my experience the opposite is true. LR constantly are issuing TSBs they did what is called the enhancement program that applied to all vehicles, really a recall, which stripped the software and re-installed new, replaced the compressor and/or a four way valve and checked for problems flagged by a number of other TSBs.
Japs would have only fixed when it went wrong, and then argued over it. Dealer has replaced/fixed anything I had a concern about under warranty no questions. Also with LR all TSBs are published on the web and accessible to owners. If have an issue you can pay a small fee for the latest TSB/recalls or ask on www.disco3.uk and someone with access may know an applicable TSB.

I agree with above it is electronics not electrics that are different on the D3.
Everything talks to each other and the problem with the MY05 and 06 models was the CANBUS had a lot of piggyback modules so if one sensor failed it caused a cascade of fault codes and could result in major shutdown (eg shorted rear globe could lead to suspension failure)
New Models (MY08 onwards) have a different CANBUD system where all modules are integrated and faults get quarantined are not alowed to cascade.

To maintain and repair a modern vehicle you need to know: mechanics/electrics/electronics and code. A steep learning curve for most.
The code part is why after market diagnostics cannot change some things in the D3, they haven't broken LRs code yet.

Pedro - I take your point about development costs, however there is a limit to that, particularly given that MAFs have been around for many years and given that other manufacturers manage to keep the price down.

You blow a tyre on the highway and you ring RACQ. You blow one off road you change it. You have a major electronic failure in the middle of nowhere you have a big problem. Dont get me wrong I love my D2 with 125k on it but I have more faith in my D1 with 255k that has been very well maintained when way off the beaten track.

As for the 04 XR6 without a hint of electronic problems I can understand that - my VT commodore when I sold it in 02 after 120k was flawless electronically - never make the mistake of comparing LR electronics with Australian Bosch...that aint a fair fight, nor does it support LR electronics reliability.

Cheers

PS. I would love to be proven wrong about the LR3 and electronics problems long term. When they get to 10 years old and averages of 200,000 - 300,000k and IF they are still proving reliable I will be the first to grab one...a V8 and LPG it up. In the meantime I think that I would be a little gullible to think that because some have done 100k in 3-4 years with few problems that that can be extrapolated to long term (ie not lease term) ownership.

Cheers

Originally Posted by ozscott

Pedro - I take your point about development costs, however there is a limit to that, particularly given that MAFs have been around for many years and given that other manufacturers manage to keep the price down.

You blow a tyre on the highway and you ring RACQ. You blow one off road you change it. You have a major electronic failure in the middle of nowhere you have a big problem. Dont get me wrong I love my D2 with 125k on it but I have more faith in my D1 with 255k that has been very well maintained when way off the beaten track.

As for the 04 XR6 without a hint of electronic problems I can understand that - my VT commodore when I sold it in 02 after 120k was flawless electronically - never make the mistake of comparing LR electronics with Australian Bosch...that aint a fair fight, nor does it support LR electronics reliability.

Cheers

PS. I would love to be proven wrong about the LR3 and electronics problems long term. When they get to 10 years old and averages of 200,000 - 300,000k and IF they are still proving reliable I will be the first to grab one...a V8 and LPG it up. In the meantime I think that I would be a little gullible to think that because some have done 100k in 3-4 years with few problems that that can be extrapolated to long term (ie not lease term) ownership.

Cheers

But LR ELECTRONICS is Bosch, well the D2/D3 is, so it is fair

As far as i know, Bosch is German??