Engine Brakes

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Originally Posted by Jock The Rock

Does braking using the engine do any damage or cause excess stress to any of the drivetrain/engine?

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Having taken and passed both car and m/cycle advanced driving courses (in the UK, under instruction of the police), I was taught engine braking is the most effective and is highly advised (especially on m/cycles). The cars where manual transmission, bit more difficult in autos!

I also used to teach police m/cycle riders part-time, and Joe Public riders occasionally, and engine braking was very common practice, and a specific part of the course.

Cheers,

..:: KIEREN ::..
2000 Disco II Auto V8

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Originally Posted by AussieAub

Having taken and passed both car and m/cycle advanced driving courses (in the UK, under instruction of the police), I was taught engine braking is the most effective and is highly advised (especially on m/cycles). The cars where manual transmission, bit more difficult in autos!

I also used to teach police m/cycle riders part-time, and Joe Public riders occasionally, and engine breaking was very common practice, and a specific part of the course.

Cheers,

..:: KIEREN ::..
2000 Disco II Auto V8

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Funny thing i did a murcott advanced driving course at work , They say not to use gears and the engine for slowing in a car (braking)
When i questioned this that ive been driving trucks for years and using the engine and gears to slow down the guy,s responce was how can you you find 18 gears out of a 6 speed commodore:eek: his reason being brakes are cheaper to repair than the drivetrain
And decided to make fun of me and my method,s ,
My answer was i was taught how to drive this way by my dad and i still do and will continue to drive this way , Ive never had a drivetrain fail in the years of driving cars and trucks:p
What a bunch tosser,s these so called driving experts are :mad: ,
Expert = drip under pressure

As I understood it. You can only fit exhaust brakes to an engine that does not have a throttle butterfly. Well, you could but the effect would be greatly reduced.

So it pretty much scratches all petrol engines and some of those strange diesel engines which have a throttle butterfly.

Like most people my age I learned to use engine braking as part of learning to drive. Brake fade used to be something that was expected, and you simply drove to allow for it, which included using engine braking to the maximum (maybe why the current set of pads and rear linings in the 110 are still in good condition after 300,000km?). Until the mid sixties for example, the most common Australian car, the Holden, had narrow eight inch drum brakes, which were not up to the job even before it started to put on weight - compare with the similar sized and powered Austin 16 my father had in the fifties with ten inch drums 50% wider, or the Simca V8 he had in the sixties with 11" drums wider again.

Also, with single circuit brakes, you learnt never to rely 100% on them. Proper use of engine braking will not cause any damage to the engine or transmission, although if you screw up you can do a lot of damage. I can remember one case when I was working in the Simpson Desert, one of our drillers stalled his Inter 190 6x6 on a sandhill - then declutched, started to run back, so took his foot off the clutch to use the (stalled) engine as a brake. Exit one clutch plate.

John

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Originally Posted by rangieman

Funny thing i did a murcott advanced driving course at work , They say not to use gears and the engine for slowing in a car (braking)
When i questioned this that ive been driving trucks for years and using the engine and gears to slow down the guy,s responce was how can you you find 18 gears out of a 6 speed commodore:eek: his reason being brakes are cheaper to repair than the drivetrain
And decided to make fun of me and my method,s ,
My answer was i was taught how to drive this way by my dad and i still do and will continue to drive this way , Ive never had a drivetrain fail in the years of driving cars and trucks:p
What a bunch tosser,s these so called driving experts are :mad: ,
Expert = drip under pressure

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Guess thats why V8 Supercars and every other race car on a track always hold the clutch in and just use the brakes when they come steaming up to a corner........
And stability, what about the vehicle stability when you just hold in the clutch and jam on the brakes, its way better than using brakes and gears at the same time coz all that weight shifting to the front of the vehicle is perfect for making it 'dig in' and pull up straight and you dont want too much brake control at the rear coz it might make you miss the corner if the car is all straight like. You have a better chance of making it turn if its loaded on the front wheels!!!!!!

Yep, thats why they're 'advanced' driving instructors and probably all drive FWD sh*tboxes...... :D:D

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Originally Posted by LOVEMYRANGIE

Guess thats why V8 Supercars and every other race car on a track always hold the clutch in and just use the brakes when they come steaming up to a corner........
And stability, what about the vehicle stability when you just hold in the clutch and jam on the brakes, its way better than using brakes and gears at the same time coz all that weight shifting to the front of the vehicle is perfect for making it 'dig in' and pull up straight and you dont want too much brake control at the rear coz it might make you miss the corner if the car is all straight like. You have a better chance of making it turn if its loaded on the front wheels!!!!!!

Yep, thats why they're 'advanced' driving instructors and probably all drive FWD sh*tboxes...... :D:D

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:Rolling::Rolling::Rolling::burnrubber:
Oh yeah i did bring up the race car thing , his answer was we are not driving race cars on a race track :eek:
And where do i work and what did i do at the time , a test driver for a well known car company at their proving ground:p:tease:
Yep tossers

I dont think Im that bader driver but I would take Chris's advice any time.

He deffinatly knows what he's doing and any driving instructor that would say something like that needs a slap because it is 100% wrong.

Engine braking is THE best way to retard momenum.

It puts even load on all componants which equates to much less load on any one componant.

The thing is that what happens when your coming down some where l
like Mt Buller and you run out of brakes........Ive seen it happen on brand new Pajero's and Nissan Pulsars the most when I used to work up there.

I will tell you what happens, they panic and either run into the high side of the road, rolling the vehicle in the worst case senario or in the very worst case they go off the low side of the road........where there is a whole lot of nothing but air and a sudden stop.

Used to be 3 a year on average back in the 90's from people using their brakes all the way down the hill.

Another thing that can happen is they pull up at Mirrimbah store with the front brakes on fire.

I saw one car ge completly burned out because of that.

They had signs on the side of the road saying Manual and auto vehicles use lower gear and try to limit braking to a minimum.

I dont think they are there anymore but it was also on the sign at the gate.

Engine braking = good, everyone should do it :D

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Originally Posted by rangieman

Funny thing i did a murcott advanced driving course at work , They say not to use gears and the engine for slowing in a car (braking)
When i questioned this that ive been driving trucks for years and using the engine and gears to slow down the guy,s responce was how can you you find 18 gears out of a 6 speed commodore:eek: his reason being brakes are cheaper to repair than the drivetrain
And decided to make fun of me and my method,s ,
My answer was i was taught how to drive this way by my dad and i still do and will continue to drive this way , Ive never had a drivetrain fail in the years of driving cars and trucks:p
What a bunch tosser,s these so called driving experts are :mad: ,
Expert = drip under pressure

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I just ask them to explain how they expect to slow down if they get a brake failure on a curve on a wet road and whose driving technique will minimise damage when you come off of the road and whose technique at least has the possability of maintaining enough control to get through the corner.

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Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

I just ask them to explain how they expect to slow down if they get a brake failure on a curve on a wet road and whose driving technique will minimise damage when you come off of the road and whose technique at least has the possability of maintaining enough control to get through the corner.

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No chance of that the guy was a complete tosser;)
And i needed to pass the course for work ,so no need to get on the wrong side of the idiot , i just shut the f up
I certainly would,nt pay for one of these course,s
He did,nt like the fact i was doing his said advanced course while steering with one hand and changing gears with the other
Many a person spun out with 2 hands the wheel ,not me i was having fun with the power slides;)

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Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

getting it wrong includes screwing the double declutch on the downshift. which shock loads everything.

down changing to early and then snapping the engine up over its designed over-run speed

being lazy on the down shift, screwing the rev match and taking it up on the clutch burning the clutch.

they are the main culprits.

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Oh, that's all easy stuff I thought you were talking about something mechanical.
I would be using an exhaust brake which I would activate after decelerating and selecting the appropriate gear, very occasionally on long hills on the road but mainly in low low in the bush, we have some very long decents around here and she can start to get away from me unless I ride the brakes a bit and that can get interesting too but I know how to keep that under control.
Steve.