On the subject of speeding......

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Originally Posted by landy63

Sadly to say , it was speed that killed Brocky , not the road , tree , conditions .

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Sorry, without knowing the details of the accident, I can't explain details; but no accident ever had a single cause. In this case, if there had been no tree to hit, it is likely that the accident would not have been fatal, just as a simple example. You can say that if he had been going slower, he would not have been killed, but you can also say that if there had been no roadside obstruction he would not have been killed. Either one can be called the "cause" of the accident, depending on whether you are campaigning to reduce speed or improve roadside safety, but neither is the sole cause of the accident.

As with any accident, there will have been a number of other factors as well, any one of which, if it had not been present, would have prevented his death.

John

I would agree that some road could have a higher speed limit but other maybe a lower one. One of the overtaking lanes on my daily run in a 100 zone in just not worth being in if it's wet. The camber of the road around that bend means most cars get thrown to the outer lane. You see it all the time on that one as the faster cars start to slide out towards the slower ones and we are only talking 5-10kn/h faster. I won't pass anyone doing more than 80 in the wet on that corner now.

Have to agree that Austrailan drivers don't have the disiplin for autobahn style roads. Very annoying with all the locals here joining the freeway at 60km/h.

ok without the sarcasm....

if you were talking about perfect roads (better than bathurst) and eliminated every possable variable so you were only talking about the time on the road then you would be correct but.....

start adding variables like curves in the road, wild life crossing the road, intersections, degraded road surfaces, weather, vehicle failures your off the mark and so far thats only considering stuff that might effect your decisions to modify what you want the vehicle to do. it compounds...

lets add in some things that actually effect the way the vehicle is going to react a dud shocky, a tyre thats a little bald, the road thats a little greasy from the tanker truck that drove over it leaking fuel and the failed wheel bearing seal that you have thats thrown grease onto your rotor decreasing your braking effect and all of a sudden your not only going further before you start to do anything with the vehicle but your going to take more distance before what you want the vehicle to do begins to take effect

now lets look at the forces involved...

the energy of the vehicle is mass time velocity the faster you go the more potential energy you have to deal with so when you finally cover the ground needed to make the decision to do something and then covered the ground required for your decision to start taking effect its then going to take you longer to do whatever the hell you wanted to do in the first place. partly because your covering the ground faster and partly because you have more energy to redirect.

look at it this way...

what happens when you clip the kerb at say 50kph in your mums hyundi? not much, you get thrown around a little. What happens when a v8 supercar (which is admitedly better built for high speed handling) clips a kerb at 220+kph?...

Same deal, just on a different scale

I drive for a living, about 10-12 hours a day 400-700 km a day, mix of city, freeway and country roads and I dont get this obsession with speed. The faster you go the less reaction time you have, the more stress it causes you and the harder you hit things.

Chill out and enjoy the drive

For starters I agree the speed limits need adjusting.


I was a good reason speed limits wont be increased. My last job required me from time to time to drive a tractor 20 minutes down the Hume Highway in a 100 km speed zone. Nice dual lanes, dual carriageway and a good surface. I could drive on the shoulder at my max legal speed for the category of vehicle 40 km/h (full power steering). All was fine till I came to two separate bridges that didn't have a shoulder wider than 1 metre. This meant I had to join the traffic with me maxed out at 40 and traffic doing 100 ish at the bottom of a hill. It gets your attension when your dancing with a semi.


Cheers
Sketer

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Originally Posted by jbarracl

I drive for a living, about 10-12 hours a day 400-700 km a day, mix of city, freeway and country roads and I dont get this obsession with speed. The faster you go the less reaction time you have, the more stress it causes you and the harder you hit things.

Chill out and enjoy the drive

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I agree. I have driven some stupid distances in a day, if I do them @ 110km/h, (Newel Highway where it is legal) it may save an hour or two but, I am more mentally fatigued and tired than if I do 100 and spend the extra hour or so behind the wheel.

In the end speed and cars do not kill people, people kill each other!
How many hours of theory, training by professionals and hours of practice does it take to get a pilots licence?
A lot....

Getting a car licence should be the same as getting an aircraft licence; planes do not pass by each other within inches at a combined speed of over 200km/h, cars do.

Until we get rid of the mentality that car licences are a right and not a privilege people will continue to be fools and not drive to their own and the environments limits.

On another note, one possible reason for the drop in road accidents is the fact we have been in a drought for over seven years. Less wet days, fewer accidents.

If this many diggers were killed each year would Aussie be happy to just put up with it, or would something drastic occur?

Many valid points have been raise here, which all combine into the factors of an accident. Speed is the least factor affecting the risk. The effects of speed are that things happen quicker, and the terminal injuries will be higher.
However, it is the least likely cause of the accident. I would put fatigue and other road users down as the main culprits.
We all drive vehicles that are now far more capable than when we were children. People drove slowly because the vehicles just weren't capable of maintaining high speeds safely. Suspension was poor, brakes and tires poor and roads were poorer too, although some of that hasn't changed.
With a well insulated, comfortable car that glides down roads, the driver is thinking at 60kph while driving at 110kph. This is the problem. I can no more avoid a person who changes into my lane when I am at 100kph than when doing 110kph, because that person is not paying attention, has failed to give way and the they have left me half the braking distance I would need at a 10kph closing speed!
I do drive fast on highways and I do so to find the break in the traffic groups so as to stay away from those bunches of people who drive nose to tail, too afraid to overtake in case they get booked, but all wanting to be in front.

Forget the speed culprit idea and look to the psychology of it. Why does a person who is happy to drive at 100kph, speed up to 130kph in an overtaking lane when you try to go past them? Why does that same person change lanes into yours as you go to overtake? Why are they happy to sit on your bumper at 140kph, then slow down to 110kph when you let them go past? I find the ignorance of others to be the most dangerous road behavior.

The Pacific Highway is a case in point. I travelled it recently and it was not the road that was dangerous but the behavior of the other road users that caused concern. Funnily enough, none of the same behavior on the New England....

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Originally Posted by QLDMIKE

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If this many diggers were killed each year would Aussie be happy to just put up with it, or would something drastic occur?

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As I mentioned above - the number of deaths from suicide in Australia has been higher than those from road accidents for years. So how about getting priorities right! The amount of effort and money put into mental health is microscopic compared to that put into road safety.

John

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Originally Posted by JDNSW

As I mentioned above - the number of deaths from suicide in Australia has been higher than those from road accidents for years. So how about getting priorities right! The amount of effort and money put into mental health is microscopic compared to that put into road safety.

John

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Actually, some of that road statistic are diggers. Lots die returning to rural based barracks such as HMAS Albatross, Puckapunyal, Singleton, Bandiana, HMAS Cerburus, RAAF Williamstown are a few that spring to mind. We post these diggers to the middle of nowhere and give them the incentive of the military justice system if they are late back. It's too hard trying to defend a charge under Stop, Revive, Survive.

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Originally Posted by damo

Why does a person who is happy to drive at 100kph, speed up to 130kph in an overtaking lane when you try to go past them?

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Excellent question, Damo, the one I get over and over is the person on 80KPH who whips up to 105KPH on the overtaking lane. At first, I just thought they were being bastards, but looking at the 'perps' it is pretty plain that they are just un-confident drivers. They travel along at a speed they feel safe, maybe 80KPH, then see the overtaking lane.
"Oh goodie, a nice safe bit of road. I know what I will do, I will speed up!!".

Very frustrating, the road I use a lot nearly always has cameras in the overtaking lanes. Grrr......