Range Rover V'S Land Cruiser

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Originally Posted by Scallops

:D I guess it depends on what your priorities are. No other 4 wheel drive can carry over a ton and go where a Defender can with that ton on board - none.

So for me and many others - the Defender is the best stock offroader on the market. :)

The old Rubicon / best stock offroader is an argument I also don't buy - and here I'm guessing at your opinion of best offraod vehicle. :angel:

So it's got lockers stock - so would the punter buy it because of that alone or might they just add lockers at a minimal (when compared to overall vehicle cost) price penalty and get the multitude of advantages a Defender offers over that vehicle?

But in regard to the original poster's issue - I reckon you should drive the Cruiser then drive the Rangie - you will be able to make the choice yourself then. And welcome to the forum, Belle. :)

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If someone says "offroader" then I think capability to traverse rough terrain. Defender is not king there. But, as you say, if we're talking load carrying ability -- both bulk and weight, then chuck in towing too -- and miserly economy to boot then yes indeed the Defender reigns supreme. That's not just offroading though.

The Rubicon is IMHO the best stock offroader, and it will easily go where Defenders struggle. Not just because of its twin lockers, but because it also has ETC, a swaybar disconnect, crawler gears etc etc.

I know three LC100 owners who have gone out to buy a LC200 and come back with something else and a very jaded view of the 200 series. Most of this is, admittedly, around the extortionate price Toyota wants, but also they had low opinions of the handling, build quality and few other gripes.

From my observations these facts stand out about Toyota in the last few years:
Build quality is dropping, particularly in the interior's robustness and the body, paint and panels.
Price is ridiculous given what you get in comparison to other brands.
Parts are expensive if you have to go genuine.

Conversely most other makes have improved in build quality, stabilised in price and parts costs.

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Originally Posted by garrycol

What about a Range Rover Sport - same category?

Garry

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Hi Garrycol, the RRS is more like a D3 and having driven all three, I still bought a D3 and FFRR over the RRS and as Belle has mentioned children, that would pretty well rule out the RRS because of the smaller interior.

The RRS is a fun machine to drive but it’s out there in it’s own class, competing with the BMW and Merc wannabes and as Toyota doesn’t really have anything in this class, not worth comparing.

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Originally Posted by rmp

If someone says "offroader" then I think capability to traverse rough terrain. Defender is not king there. But, as you say, if we're talking load carrying ability -- both bulk and weight, then chuck in towing too -- and miserly economy to boot then yes indeed the Defender reigns supreme. That's not just offroading though.

The Rubicon is IMHO the best stock offroader, and it will easily go where Defenders struggle. Not just because of its twin lockers, but because it also has ETC, a swaybar disconnect, crawler gears etc etc.

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At the risk of highjacking this thread - I'll make this post my last on this...:D though you have some valid points there, rmp, and I don't necessarily disagree nor do I necessarily agree. :)

But for my information and education, may I ask - are you familiar with the new Defender's ETC? And I was under the impression that the new Defender has the lowest first gear ratio of any vehicle bar none, and the fact is that the new Defender's swaybars also disconnect - or at least JohnR's do when the bolts fall out! :D

But seriously - the new Defender has different (improved electronically by ECU) ETC from the 2006 TD5 and does, as I understand it, have lower ratios available than any other vehicle. :confused:

The 200 series has a big difference in load cappacity from base to top of line.
• Gross Vehicle Mass^ (Kg) 3300
GXL Petrol : 2555 - 2635 this would = 745kg -665 kg load no accessories
Sahara Petrol: 2610 - 2665 this would = 690kg -635kg load no accessories
GXL T/Diesel : 2630 - 2700 This would = 670 kg-600kg load no accessories
VX & Sahara T/Diesel: 2675 - 2720 las t but no least = 625kg -580kg
• Maximum roof load (Kg) 200 but if you place a roof rack on this is included in this weight and you need to deduct the roof weight.
So a VX & sahara fully factory opptioned 580kg cappacity place on steel bull bar and rear bar with tyre carrier,long range fuel tank,steel side steps and its even less. If you opption up with roof rack also and place load up there this has to come off the 580kg also. So full opptioned for a trip you place esky in back spare tyre on roof and have all luggage in the Landrover support vehicle usually a defender with 1000kg load capacity travelling with you for recovery and support. Oh and dont forget if you are travellin in dusty conditions to pack a shower and cloths to change into as LC have a huge dust problem as advised on a couple of trip reports(top gear Aus comparo RR,Audi,200LC)for one and i have been advised by owner of one that this is correct and he wished he kept his 100series TD,:wasntme:

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Originally Posted by Scallops

At the risk of highjacking this thread - I'll make this post my last on this...:D though you have some valid points there, rmp, and I don't necessarily disagree nor do I necessarily agree. :)

But for my information and education, may I ask - are you familiar with the new Defender's ETC? And I was under the impression that the new Defender has the lowest first gear ratio of any vehicle bar none, and the fact is that the new Defender's swaybars also disconnect - or at least JohnR's do when the bolts fall out! :D

But seriously - the new Defender has different (improved electronically by ECU) ETC from the 2006 TD5 and does, as I understand it, have lower ratios available than any other vehicle. :confused:

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Yes I am familiar with the new Defender's ETC. I don't see it being much different, if any, to the version on the TD5, and it's not as good as the 200's. I don't see it being any better than Jeep's efforts with the Wrangler for sure.

Yes the 1:62 is pretty low. But the Rubicon is around there too, might even be 1:70 or so from memory. A merely low gear isn't everything, while the 76 Series can't match 1:62 it has excellent engine braking so is just as good in the real world.

Modifying a vehicle doesn't count, but the new Defender's swaybars certainly don't help it's case in low range territory.

I'm not asking anyone to agree, you can all make your own minds up ;-)

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Originally Posted by 4wd4fun

The 200 series has a big difference in load cappacity from base to top of line.
• Gross Vehicle Mass^ (Kg) 3300
GXL Petrol : 2555 - 2635 this would = 745kg -665 kg load no accessories
Sahara Petrol: 2610 - 2665 this would = 690kg -635kg load no accessories
GXL T/Diesel : 2630 - 2700 This would = 670 kg-600kg load no accessories
VX & Sahara T/Diesel: 2675 - 2720 las t but no least = 625kg -580kg
• Maximum roof load (Kg) 200 but if you place a roof rack on this is included in this weight and you need to deduct the roof weight.
So a VX & sahara fully factory opptioned 580kg cappacity place on steel bull bar and rear bar with tyre carrier,long range fuel tank,steel side steps and its even less. If you opption up with roof rack also and place load up there this has to come off the 580kg also. So full opptioned for a trip you place esky in back spare tyre on roof and have all luggage in the Landrover support vehicle usually a defender with 1000kg load capacity travelling with you for recovery and support. Oh and dont forget if you are travellin in dusty conditions to pack a shower and cloths to change into as LC have a huge dust problem as advised on a couple of trip reports(top gear Aus comparo RR,Audi,200LC)for one and i have been advised by owner of one that this is correct and he wished he kept his 100series TD,:wasntme:

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That is also true of almost every other vehicle. Diesels weigh more than petrol, auto more than manual, luxo spec more than base, with some rare exceptions.

I've not experienced any dust problems with either LC200s or LX570.

you cant compair the new defender and the rubicon! they are similar but very different. the defender is more of an all rounder to the rubicon, where as it was built purley for serious offroad! as rmp has stated.

back to the topic at hand;)

cheers phil

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Originally Posted by rmp

Yes I am familiar with the new Defender's ETC. I don't see it being much different, if any, to the version on the TD5,...

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You have obviously not used it. It is significantly better than previous versions. I'm not familiar with the LC200's, but the Jeep owners I've talked to make me think their's is about on par with the Td5's ETC. Again though I have no comparison for the Jeep either.

I suspect the OP is talking about getting a car for town use for image not offroading. If Belle's man is keen on the 200 series, and a hotted up Hilux (not read as modified) and a "hot hot hot, fully sick Range Rover" I'd say looks and image are the primary motivators here. Out on a limb here, but I'm picturing 'Pimped'