Dog question for DB

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Originally Posted by dullbird

Yes I'm sure it does work but so did whipping slaves when they stopped doing what they were told:D

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Originally Posted by dullbird

for anyone that wants to understand why I feel the way i do about check chains (seriously) if you have one at home put it around your neck towards the top and have your partner pull on it and then give it a short sharp check and come back and tell me whether it causes you any discomfort

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Of course it causes discomort so would a Hali or even a normal colar.

This is making dogs out to be human; they are not.
There is a good reason why I do not feed my wife dog biscuits, make her sleep downstairs in the living room, go to toilet outside or chuck her outside if she is naughty.
These arguments sound good but are emotional rather than logical ones.

There are some good arguments for not using check chains, these just aren't.

Ok,,

how about some logical reasons to use a check chain?

Fair enough question. :D

I would not tell anyone that they must use a check chain.
It is just one of many options to train a dog. The goal of any contol divice should be to be able to wallk the dog under contrtol without a lead. (since it is law to have one on in public that would otherwise mean a loose lead)

A check chain works by telling the dog the lead is about to tighten, it should learn to react to the sound of the chain before it actually tightens.

In untrained hands a check chain will not work and could cause the dog to hurt itself by pulling against it.
This can be same with a soft training colar as it can still constrict tha airway and blood flow.
A Halti works by closing the dogs mouth so it cannot breath through it's mouth, since this is how dog cools down it is possible for an overexcited dog that fails to respond to the divice can start to overheat.

Any device used to control a dog rather than train a dog shows a lack of understanding and can be detrimental to the dog.

I am not saying 'use a check chain' just don't be so quick to judge those who do.:)

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Originally Posted by dullbird

Jesus perhaps you need to buy halti's for your horses too :lol2: I have controlled very spirited 18hh warmbloods in such a way....

of course i'm only talking avoidance here if it wants to kick your head in to get away thats another story....:lol2:

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this may surprise you, but the idea of the Halti came from the halter used on horses.
on thew subject of the halti, I totally support Dullbird in this. our monster Bo (in my avitar) was rescued from a japanese family in Willoughby by one of our friends. The family had him tied to the clothes line with a check chain around his neck because the children werre scared of him. they had no idea he was going to grow that big, and at that stage, he was onmly 8 months old.
the check chain was put on him as a pup, and we couldn't get it over his head without cutting it.
all of our dogs walk well on a halti. it leads them by directing their nosein the direction you want them to go, which is great for getting their attention away from another dog if things are getting tense.
Mrs Barney is a trainer, animal behaviourist (delta CGC) and groomer . their dog club will not permit anyone to train with a check chain.
BTW, she sells them....is that a trader ad?:o;)

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Originally Posted by barney

our monster Bo (in my avitar) was rescued from a japanese family in Willoughby by one of our friends. The family had him tied to the clothes line with a check chain around his neck because the children werre scared of him. they had no idea he was going to grow that big, and at that stage, he was onmly 8 months old.
the check chain was put on him as a pup, and we couldn't get it over his head without cutting it.

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Perfect example of the misuse of a check chain.:mad:
Perfect example of folk who shouldn't have a dog.:twisted:
Beautiful looking dog barney.:BigThumb:

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Originally Posted by CaverD3

A Halti works by closing the dogs mouth so it cannot breath through it's mouth, since this is how dog cools down it is possible for an overexcited dog that fails to respond to the divice can start to overheat.

.:)

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No, the halti works by giving you direct communication with the dogs head and the direction it's going. it's not meant to be an aggressive tool to pull on the dog until it gives in. it's a relatively passive tool.
there are a couple of different brands of these things, all along the sdame lines; Gentle Leader is one, we use one from Black Dog.
the Black Dog one has a collar part that fastens around the dogs neck, snuggly but not overly tight, attached to that down either side of the dog's muzzle is a soft hoop over the top of the nose and this is held in place by one of those slip toggles that you find around the neck of your polar fleece jackets.
there are two D rings, one on the cords that come off the nose peice and one that is on the neck collar. Correct use will have a double ended lead, one end attached to the neck ring for restraining the dog if need be, and one on the cords hanging from the nose hoop for leading the dog.
you can see in this video [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zPHnCfH774"]YouTube - Gentle Leader Headcollar[/ame] that the gentle leader is different in that it does tighten, but at the back of the dog's mouth allowing the dog to open it's mouth and pant.
the one we got looks like this;-http://blackdog.net.au/images/bdw/products/THMini.gif this one's from Black Dog Black Dog Wear - Home
hope this helps!

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Originally Posted by Pedro_The_Swift

Ok,,

how about some logical reasons to use a check chain?

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Two

David Carradine and Michael Hutchins


Well there must be some reason they do it

:Rolling::Rolling:

That was in response to Dobbos post.

Barney, agree that the head colar type devices are 'relatively passive'.
With a responsive dog there are no issues but I have seen owners, particularly staffies, with their dog fighting the device until they are exhausted. Operator error again not a fault with the device itself.
As I said all of these devices are good used properly, mothing wrong with the Halti or similar just the owners.

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Originally Posted by CaverD3

Fair enough question. :D

I would not tell anyone that they must use a check chain.
It is just one of many options to train a dog. The goal of any contol divice should be to be able to wallk the dog under contrtol without a lead. (since it is law to have one on in public that would otherwise mean a loose lead)

A check chain works by telling the dog the lead is about to tighten, it should learn to react to the sound of the chain before it actually tightens.

In untrained hands a check chain will not work and could cause the dog to hurt itself by pulling against it.
This can be same with a soft training colar as it can still constrict tha airway and blood flow.
A Halti works by closing the dogs mouth so it cannot breath through it's mouth, since this is how dog cools down it is possible for an overexcited dog that fails to respond to the divice can start to overheat.

Any device used to control a dog rather than train a dog shows a lack of understanding and can be detrimental to the dog.

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I am not saying 'use a check chain' just don't be so quick to judge those who do.

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:)

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Caver I think your getting a little over excited here......I dont judge people for using check chains i just gave reasons to why I dont like them. and said that in the wrong hands they can do damage, as the dog can to damage its self on one from its own pulling..

I agree with you in the over excited part of the dog and not being able to cool but a dog breaths mainly through its nose not is mouth and the halti does not restric breathing in this manor. Yes all things a dog wears would create discomfort to some degree if used incorrectly but I would far rather a thick webbed collar than a thin metal chain.

I didn't come on here to offend anyone I was asked a question I answered it and gave reasons as to why the RS and myself dont like check chains.....
I'm not judging anyone!!!! just having my opinion just like you:)

And I apologise if I offended you!

Not offended dullbird.:)

I was just pointing out that making a human analogy was not appropriate when talking about dog ownership.

I have come accross a few who evangelically promote the banning of check chains (and even some even against punishing a dog at all for anything)


There are some (and I am not saying you think this) who believe that humans should treat animals in the same manner as humans (eg PETA and Animal Liberation) I did not subscribe to their philosophy. That does not mean deliberately inflicting cruelty on any animal is ok, cruelty is defined in the actions and motivations of humans (a human moral issue for us).