New Fraser island backpacker 4wd rules

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Originally Posted by Outlaw

A good start :)

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Agreed, seems like a sensible initial response.

Regards,
Tote

its a start........unfortunitly there will be the human factor and it won't be the last incident

bad all none queenslanders from entering the island:p

Im with you Solmanic,

I agree that something needs to be done,,,we, as regular 4X4ers have accidents and moments too,,, and we're trained,, through experience with the fact we learn with mates etc when we go out, and the fact most of us use our vehicles as daily drivers,,,

When the visitors hire these Troopies etc, and drive on the beaches and even in the bush/outback,, you'll probably find most of them have never driven anything larger than a Ford Laser or equivilent,,,
It'd be a bit like most of us jumping into a B-Double,,

And maybe if there was a slow-up in the 4x4 market, we might be able to get some more local vehicles made,,(its not like we couldn't use the work)

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Originally Posted by solmanic

Yes they can... if they had any balls.
I've said it before and I'll say it again - introduce a license class for vehicles with a low-ratio gearbox. 18 months grace period for those of us who already have high/low ratio vehicles to get our licenses upgraded, then bring it into full force.

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I completely DISAGREE !

The LAST THING we need as a country and especially as four wheel drivers (or hunters, or fishermen etc) is MORE LEGISLATION>

The pollies have already tied one hand behind our backs - don;t think that a $wd licence wouldn;t be used as anotehr means of control / taking people out of the past-time and as a means of further restricting us !

get real mate !

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Originally Posted by solmanic

Using QLD as an example, introduce a new license class C4 (general cars are C).

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Ok, so you reckon that QLD 4x4 drivers are that bad do you :angel:

So long as us excellent drivers from SA don't have to have a new class :)

Seriously now... what a lot of crap!

I guess you want to ban bull bars and lifts and ??? etc. as well. Or perhaps we could have another licence class for those??

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Originally Posted by VladTepes

I completely DISAGREE !

The LAST THING we need as a country and especially as four wheel drivers (or hunters, or fishermen etc) is MORE LEGISLATION>

So you disagree with the idea that there is currently nothing stopping incompetent people from endangering themselves and others by purchasing or hiring a large 4x4 and putting it on its lid on a beach somewhere? Do you think that situation is OK???

The pollies have already tied one hand behind our backs - don;t think that a $wd licence wouldn;t be used as anotehr means of control / taking people out of the past-time and as a means of further restricting us !

It's like having a boat license or motorbike license. No-one is stopping anyone from enjoying off-roading as a recreational pursuit. And as I said earlier, I would hope that having better educated & trained people off-roading might mean the government doesn't have to keep closing stuff down!

get real mate !

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Sounds like a comment from someone who fears they might fail their off-road driving test if you ask me :p. Seriously, what have competent and intelligent members of the 4WD-ing community (like ourselves) got to fear? Just upgrade your license and get back to doing what you love.

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Originally Posted by miky

Ok, so you reckon that QLD 4x4 drivers are that bad do you :angel:

My example has nothing to do with Qld drivers, I was just using that as an example because I am familiar with the licensing classifications.

So long as us excellent drivers from SA don't have to have a new class :)

Seriously now... what a lot of crap!

As I said above, are you also afraid of being made to do another driving test?

I guess you want to ban bull bars and lifts and ??? etc. as well. Or perhaps we could have another licence class for those??

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WTF! I don't see how proposing the introduction of another license class has anything to do with vehicle modifications. Let's focus on the issue here - it's about inexperienced drivers being allowed to endanger themselves & others by using equipment they are not familiar with in a manner they have had no training in.

Yes, it's another step towards a nanny state,
Yes, it's yet another little piece of bureucracy we might have to deal with...
...but that doesn't mean it's a bad idea.

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Originally Posted by solmanic

Yes they can... if they had any balls.
I've said it before and I'll say it again - introduce a license class for vehicles with a low-ratio gearbox. 18 months grace period for those of us who already have high/low ratio vehicles to get our licenses upgraded, then bring it into full force.

No way then can an unlicensed driver (especially one from overseas) be able to hire a 2 tonne Troopie and park it on it's lid on a beach somewhere!

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Your proposition is unworkable.

The hire companies would either get an exemption or get the law overturned. Or they would modify/buy vehicles that got around the new rules.

Even if they did bring such laws in - many people with OS licences could probably successfully argue that they comply. e.g. take Germany:
- it costs e2000 or so to get a drivers licence
- you need to sit a whole battery of written and practical tests
- the experience/tests MUST include night driving, autobahn driving, etc, etc...
- Australian licences are only valid in germany for a grace period of 6 months - after that, you need to do all the licence tests.
- many German people have HV licences, as military/civil service is compulsory (for males).
- Unimogs have LL/L/M/H ranges ;)

All of the above doesn't mean you can drive on sand at high speed. Which is the main issue here, and is not addressed by your proposed changes.

It says the speed was DROPPED to 80Kmph... what was the original speed limit?

Personally i wouldn't even want to do 80Kmph! :angel: seems as if they are being generous and these changes are more then welcomed on my behalf as it will in turn prevent injury, and the idea of training those hireing vehicles would be a great idea, as this crash MAY have been avoided if the driver were to hit the wave rather then swerve on the unstable footing of sand.

Shame it takes death for these things to be looked at :(


James.

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Originally Posted by isuzurover

Your proposition is unworkable.

The hire companies would either get an exemption or get the law overturned. Or they would modify/buy vehicles that got around the new rules.

The possible example I've outlined would require a hell of a lot of butchering of any vehicle to change its classification. Lowering, weight shedding, not to mention dropping the entire transfer case. And if they modified the vehicles to dodge the licensing classification this would reduce the vehicle's capabilities and how would they avoid the vehicle failing a roadworthy?

Even if they did bring such laws in - many people with OS licences could probably successfully argue that they comply. e.g. take Germany:
- it costs e2000 or so to get a drivers licence
- you need to sit a whole battery of written and practical tests
- the experience/tests MUST include night driving, autobahn driving, etc, etc...
- Australian licences are only valid in germany for a grace period of 6 months - after that, you need to do all the licence tests.
- many German people have HV licences, as military/civil service is compulsory (for males).
- Unimogs have LL/L/M/H ranges ;)

In the same way that Germany has extra training & testing for high speed freeway driving, Australia should have it's own training for our unique conditions. Now I'm pretty sure no other country has an off-road vehicle license class so why shouldn't Australia be the first? As for foreign license holders, they would need to get Australian C4 accreditation before they could hire or drive such vehicles like everyone else. If they were visiting for a few weeks, then no point - can't hire a Troopie - potential disaster averted. If they were here for a few months then they have the option to do the same driver training & testing as anyone living here and get an endorsement on their foreign drivers license then happy trails.

All of the above doesn't mean you can drive on sand at high speed. Which is the main issue here, and is not addressed by your proposed changes.

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Exactly why the separate class is required. I was only outlining the possible vehicle characteristics which would require the driver to hold a class C4 license. But obviously the testing would need to cover what you are referring to, ie. basic off-road technique & theory. Not unlike the GCLRO Driver Awareness and Recovery Exercise but with testing.

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Originally Posted by Grover-98

It says the speed was DROPPED to 80Kmph... what was the original speed limit?

It was 100km/h and considered the same as any open highway.

Shame it takes death for these things to be looked at :(

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Ain't that the truth.

Just ban self-drive hire cars. This would stop the tourists from driving and create a new job market for tour drivers. In fact baning troopies would go a long way towards fixing the problem IMHO.