Thread: VANISHING INDUSTRIES AND NATIONAL SECURITY

Wasn't that a comment by Emperor Hirahito in relation to Japan's national interest. That the Pacific War was merely a battle in which Japan would assume it's natural sphere of influence. After the battle there would an ecconomic war which may take 100 years. It seemed to take only about 50 years for Japan to become a creditor nation.

These days if China were to invade Australia, we would have to buy chinese made resources to fight the war with them, including strategic materials such as tyres and rubber automotive hoses as we no longer manufacture those items in Oz. Thanks Pacific Dunlop and Gates Rubber Company!

Diana

I doubt it is intentional - China has never been territorially aggressive except in its immediate neighbourhood, where it regards much of S.E. Asia (including Tibet) as straying provinces.

It is probably of interest to consider the situation that Australia found itself in in 1939. With no industrial base worth talking about, by 1945 Australia was manufacturing things that were considered impossible six years earlier - apart from obvious large items such as modern aircraft (and engines) and tanks, Australians were able to produce specialist items such as optical glass and slip guages starting from zero. Remembering that much of Australia's fledling industrial capacity had disappeared when steamers, the Suez Canal, and the telegraph robbed local manufacturers of things like steam engines of their advantages. With some exceptions, such as the protected car industry and government railway workshops, for the first third of twentieth century most manufactured goods were imported.

After the war, protection was ramped up to protect the wartime established industry, before starting to be wound back forty years later.

John

Originally Posted by JDNSW

I doubt it is intentional - China has never been territorially aggressive except in its immediate neighbourhood, where it regards much of S.E. Asia (including Tibet) as straying provinces.

It is probably of interest to consider the situation that Australia found itself in in 1939. With no industrial base worth talking about, by 1945 Australia was manufacturing things that were considered impossible six years earlier - apart from obvious large items such as modern aircraft (and engines) and tanks, Australians were able to produce specialist items such as optical glass and slip guages starting from zero. Remembering that much of Australia's fledling industrial capacity had disappeared when steamers, the Suez Canal, and the telegraph robbed local manufacturers of things like steam engines of their advantages. With some exceptions, such as the protected car industry and government railway workshops, for the first third of twentieth century most manufactured goods were imported.

After the war, protection was ramped up to protect the wartime established industry, before starting to be wound back forty years later.

John

Not quite right, JD. There were substantial manufacturing industries in Australia before WWII. Even Queensland, where the economy was based on sugar, wool, wheat, beef, had large industrial operations, foundries, shipyards, heavy engineering, canneries, the state railway workshops. I can think of six firms in Brisbane that made internal combustion engines from small single cylinder units to quite substantial marine engines. There were others in Ipswich, Toowoomba, Maryborough and Cairns to my knowledge. Rapson & Dutton made diesel engines. Machine tools were made in Brisbane. I had an eight ton Mars lathe from the 1930's. Petrol bowsers were made in quantity in Brisbane. I note that almost none of these industries exist today.

During the war we were either cut off from our traditional suppliers or they were unable to supply us as well as their own needs. We had to turn around and make items here that would never have been except for the pressure cooker of war. BHP Whyalla and South Australian Railways made engineers cutting tools, taps and dies, etc. for the fledgling aircraft industry and for the USAAF. I have a collection of these. Sutton Bros. Die, Tool, and Gauge Room grew into Suttons Industries in this period.

Originally Posted by Brian Hjelm

Not quite right, JD.

Indeed. Take this for another example. An Australian engineering company designed and built the world's first 4x4 AND 4WS truck in 1907 - including an 11.25L engine designed and built from scratch.

CALDWELL VALE

The following is an extract from a feature in the TOMM magazine on the restoration of a Caldwell Vale by Reg Schuster. Link to TOMM The Old Machinery Magazine : Australian Machinery Magazine

The Caldwell Vale tractor/truck had its beginning in Adelaide 1907 when Felix and Norman Caldwell applied for a patent described as "four wheel drive, four wheel steering". In 1910 with Henry Vale a financier, heavy equipment and locomotive manufacturer they established Caldwell Vale Motor and Tractor Construction Company in Auburn, Sydney. Unfortunately due to financial problems the production of what was most likely the worlds most technically advanced tractor was ceased in 1916 when the company was taken over by Purcell Engineering.

Caldwell Vale TruckReg acquired his Caldwell Vale truck after a phone call stating that there was an unusual looking piece of machinery at a scrap metal merchant. He immediately recognised it to be two Caldwell Vale road trains. This was a major find which led Reg and friends to many months of extensive restoration work. For the complete and interesting story of this restoration process contact me or "The Old Machinery Magazine" on the above link. The photo on the right is the Caldwell Vale making its debut at the Rusty Iron Rally, NSW with Reg proudly seated at the wheel.

Caldwell Vale EngineThe tractors of 40 and 80 HP were also fitted with platform bodies for overland road train operations, the one Reg rebuilt being a fine example. I have not been able to get a photo of a tractor. It is believed that approx. 40-50 were built between 1910 and 1916, several were used in the construction of the city of Canberra, others were used by the Australian Pastoral Company in the Longreach area. The photo on the right shows Reg holding the Schebler carburettor beside his fully assembled engine. The 4 cylinder petrol engine developed 80hp at 800rpm, has a bore and stroke of 6in x 6in, 11.25 litre. The transmission has 3 forward, 1 reverse and gives the 9 ton truck a maximum speed of 10mph and a petrol consumption of 1 mile per gallon. The engine with the exception of the Schebler carburettor and the Simms magneto was built entirely by Caldwell Vale in their Auburn factory. It runs in constant 4 wheel drive and interestingly featured power steering, way before its time. Any photos or further information on the Caldwell Vale is always welcome

However, the original quote is a load of BS I am sure. While manufacturing of commodity items has moved to china, how many parts of high tech items like the space shuttle are made in china?

I am not sure if it is still the case but when I worked at Ford I was told the production lines in Geelong were able to be turned to war production within 48 hours. All of the necessary dies etc could be up and running very quickly. Note I left Ford in 1995?. During WW2 Geelong production lines built various armoured vehicles.
I believe the Goverment would not let these companies fail for that very reason.

The week following the bombing of Pearl Harbour, Roosevelt asked congress for 4 billion dollars to fight the war. By the end of the war, the USA had spent 88 billion dollars ( thats 88 billions in 1945 values )

How much has congress shelled out so far in it’s bailout of the US economy?

We are not in the running when it comes to competing against the money China and the USA ( plus others ) have at there disposal.

What we can do is follow on from what Brian posted about, the making of specialised tools.

We can’t compete by trying to build ordinary everyday products on an unlevel playing field with countries like China and India, who having such cheap labour.

We can make good money making small run specialised goods, this is one area where we have the expertise and the tooling in place, all we need ( and it’s never likely to happen ) is private and government financing.

Originally Posted by isuzurover

... how many parts of high tech items like the space shuttle are made in china?

I don't actually know although I do know that China has an active space programme and has put Chinese Astronauts into space in Chinese rockets launched from Chinese launch sites. So while they may not make parts for space shuttles, they do make manned spacecraft and the technology to launch and recover them. Space Today Online - Chinese astronauts called yuhangyuans fly in Shenzhou capsules

Diana

Dont underestimate the chinese or us for that matter we built the bushmasters here, sure they yanks could have built 20 X more but they would not be better infact the steel used here is better than what they were going to use and will stop more. We cant compete in production numbers but in small runs of high quality we can, i hope