Pool Plumbing - any ideas?

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Originally Posted by 5teve

Thanks for that ... but as i said its on its way! ( i should of asked earlier!!! :D ) the 7t should be fine for over here... its about 40% up on our existing clearwater output (if thats running ok) so will deal with it fine. its rated to 50000L in a tropical climate which perth isnt classed as.

I did look long and hard at pumps... and i mean long and hard.. weighing up most things.. the TX is discontinued now i beleive and the CX and TX have been combined into the CTX.

The onga silentflow are relatively new to the market and as such are very efficient... with very good flow compared to previous models (i am replacing LT550 and LT750 onga pumps) the old LT pumps have been going for 7 years without a hiccup and were also for 5 of those fully exposed to the elements...

The solar is existing (as is everything else which makes it all the harder) and its a single storey install but with about 25m pipework to get to the roof.. and then about 15 back to the pool. the Onga silentflow (only 550w input) will give slightly more flow than the existing pump but not much more. Its actually an incredibly small pump compared to our friends installs... a single storey with a 1 1/2hp pump! he compains it doesnt heat up much and i wonder why! i know with solar you dont need flow as it heats better that way. Im also going to limit the number of bends i use.. preferably use 135deg instead... as i dont seem to be able to find swept bends anywhere? that should ease the flow (lots of experience with Koi ponds and designing/building gravity fed filter systems)

Nearly forgot to say the solar is unfiltered and just a direct loop from pool through pump to roof and back... with a controller of course... strangely correct me if im wrong... but the current solar temperature sensor for the pool water sits in the solar line... so when it hits tempand stops... the sensor gets no new water to detect temperaure with.. so therefore relies on the water in the pipe cooling down... surely it should be in the main pool line?

I just havent got space for the sand filter and associated equipment (soakwell etc) and as im comfortable with the cartridge i'm happy.. plus it is over specc'd again... i think they are a bit like boats... your either a Tinny guy or a Glass guy...

I havent heard of a surface sealer.. sounds interesting so will look at that... we just cover it up every time as its not too much hassle to cover and uncover.

Thanks for the help... appreciate it!

Steve

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cool sound like you are onto it. and you are correct about the solor, you just want the water to get to the top and sort of fall back into the pool.

the solar controller should have 2 temperature probes. 1 in the pipework uslly on the outlet of you pump and the other just sitting on the roof is about a 2" square bit of what ever you are using as solar pipe work.

you should be able to set the maximum water temperature. if the pool is to hot it turns off. the differential temperature. so if the roof is 20 deg hotter then the water turn on. thats it

you should have a non return valve ( usually with a small hole in it) just above the solar pump. this is to stop the water running back though the pump and spinning off the impeller ( important)

when you get the solar up and running, sit on the roof and remove the bleed valve, you want no more than about a bucket a minute flowing out of there, if you have a geyser down size pump or choke it off.

that done watch the bead valve and if its popping open as the water falls back into the pool ( or you have bubbles retuning to the pool constantly) you may need a tap on the return line to chock it off a bit.

OH, and just use the clear glue not the blue its to brittle, and dont use a primer just use a green scouring pad or a bit of 1000 wet and dry

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Originally Posted by clean32

OH, and just use the clear glue not the blue its to brittle, and dont use a primer just use a green scouring pad or a bit of 1000 wet and dry

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The guys that installed it used the blue stuff.... need i say anymore! lucky i didnt own it when they did as they would of had to of redone the whole lot. Yep i normally rough it up and the glue... never had a problem yet...

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Originally Posted by clean32

cool sound like you are onto it. and you are correct about the solor, you just want the water to get to the top and sort of fall back into the pool.

the solar controller should have 2 temperature probes. 1 in the pipework uslly on the outlet of you pump and the other just sitting on the roof is about a 2" square bit of what ever you are using as solar pipe work.

you should be able to set the maximum water temperature. if the pool is to hot it turns off. the differential temperature. so if the roof is 20 deg hotter then the water turn on. thats it

you should have a non return valve ( usually with a small hole in it) just above the solar pump. this is to stop the water running back though the pump and spinning off the impeller ( important)

when you get the solar up and running, sit on the roof and remove the bleed valve, you want no more than about a bucket a minute flowing out of there, if you have a geyser down size pump or choke it off.

that done watch the bead valve and if its popping open as the water falls back into the pool ( or you have bubbles retuning to the pool constantly) you may need a tap on the return line to chock it off a bit.

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Cool now i'm getting somewhere. Yes it has 2 probes. One as i said in the solar inlet pipe before the pump (so it has no idea what temp the water is once the pump has stopped.) the other was on the roof but some idiot obviously broke it and then dropped a new one on the fence about 30m away from the roof! (yes they were that shoddy!) my plan is to put a new one on the roof and have the water one on the filter inlet between the skimmer and the pump, but in a place i can get to it rather than it being buried under the water fall like it is.

The non return valves for both pumps are currently before the pumps to stop them from losing prime... when taking the strainer lids off... but it got me thinking that im not sure that the strainer lids are designed for positive pressure (they dont leak or break so it seems ok) the valves should stop the backflow enough at that point to stop an impeller movement. the solar also has a breather so that the heater drains down into the pool (the valves are also installed vertically? is that right?) i do want to move them so that they are serviceable tho... may be handy! again the existing ones are under the waterfall.. but im a bit worried about installing them above water level.

Thanks again for all the info... all a nice learning curve for me!

Steve

ok cool, sound like you are ok with the non retun valves and the probes.


the air bleed or breather yes should be mounted vertical and at the highest point

so from pump to the very top of your roof air bleed then 180 down the roof with the manifolds feeding the tubes. other end of the tubes into manifold strate down the side of your house near the bottom or at least 1/2 way down fit a stop cock to act as a restriction. then into pool.

Now the water falling off the roof some times can fall a bit faster that the water being pumped up creating a vacuum and the breather opens up filling every thing with air, until the pump catches up and then it all repeats its self. or the water flows don the manifold and across only 1/2 the tubes with the top 1/2 being full of air and not heating up any thing.

another good idear is to fit a stop cock on the bottom of the feeding manifold, to flush out the crap that gets past you skimmer box but cant get though the tubes. even better is to plum up a bypass so you can back wash the solar system ( very smart)

lol

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Originally Posted by clean32

lol

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Nice drawing :)

If only mine was that simple... its not.. the breather is halfway up the wall about where you have the stop cock.. not at the top... im pretty sure there isnt one at the top... the pipes enter and exit next to each other so the heater wraps back on itself.. so it makes it easy to add a backwash at any time.. thats just 2 3 way valves and an outlet.. so yes that may be an addition i add afterwards... easy access there too... the solar doesnt run through the skimmer either so im sure its full of crap!

Thanks for the ideas! oh and spending more of my money :)

Steve

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Originally Posted by 5teve

Nice drawing :)

If only mine was that simple... its not.. the breather is halfway up the wall about where you have the stop cock.. not at the top... im pretty sure there isnt one at the top... the pipes enter and exit next to each other so the heater wraps back on itself.. so it makes it easy to add a backwash at any time.. thats just 2 3 way valves and an outlet.. so yes that may be an addition i add afterwards... easy access there too... the solar doesnt run through the skimmer either so im sure its full of crap!

Thanks for the ideas! oh and spending more of my money :)

Steve

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well no option theres no point in having a breather valve 1/2 down the wall, it will have to be moved.

your solar pump has no skimmer box ?????? why not? you can use a no skimmer pup if you are taking water out of the filter line after the filer ( common practice)

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Originally Posted by clean32

well no option theres no point in having a breather valve 1/2 down the wall, it will have to be moved.

your solar pump has no skimmer box ?????? why not? you can use a no skimmer pup if you are taking water out of the filter line after the filer ( common practice)

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yep thats correct it has 2 inlets halfway up the pool that go direct to the pump and do not pass go... :) then goes staight to the heater.. no filter or anything....

seems to be a common way of doing it over here (maybe a state thing?)

the breather works where it is as it allows the water to flow back to the pool you can hear it drain off when the pump switches off.. again its been on for 7 years and hasnt had an issue... i think :) i inherited the system... i will check to see if there is another tho..

this existing installation seems to be amazing you by the minute! hehe....

most things in the house are amazing me... i cant beleive people make money doing the work i have seen!

Thanks
Steve

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Originally Posted by clean32

OH, and just use the clear glue not the blue its to brittle, and dont use a primer just use a green scouring pad or a bit of 1000 wet and dry

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What is this clear glue??? I have never seen it - only blue and green. And what is wrong with primer - IME it works very well.

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Originally Posted by 5teve

yep thats correct it has 2 inlets halfway up the pool that go direct to the pump and do not pass go... :) then goes staight to the heater.. no filter or anything....

seems to be a common way of doing it over here (maybe a state thing?)

the breather works where it is as it allows the water to flow back to the pool you can hear it drain off when the pump switches off.. again its been on for 7 years and hasnt had an issue... i think :) i inherited the system... i will check to see if there is another tho..

this existing installation seems to be amazing you by the minute! hehe....

most things in the house are amazing me... i cant beleive people make money doing the work i have seen!

Thanks
Steve

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sorry i said skimmer box, DUH i meant basket on the pump. to have the inlet and outlet 1/2 in the pool is normal and best method.

i may pay to get a sock for the solar pump basket.

if you have the black rubber tubes ( rubber not PVC) move the bleed valve if you have PVC you will get away with it ( not moving the bleed valve) i doubt that the tubes are emptying of water when the system is off.